matt23z wrote:I gather that the moon will occlude the pleiades as well.The Babylonian astrologers would have taken that quite seriously.

Matthew

As to the occlusion I have doubts. In my table of occultations by the Moon there are no Pleiades given for tonight, whereas in March (30.) Alcyone was listed; next of them will be Alcyone and Merope on the 18th of July. The Pleiades as a wohle group will not be occulted this year.

I think they will be sandwich-like-tight just north of the dark disk of the Moon and Mercury likewise south of her crescent (as I wrote yesterday 11:27 am).

But the extreme and visible conjunction remains. Do you have any idea how the Babylonians had judged this clusterum of the waxing Moon, Mercury and the Pleiades?

3D wrote:[I'm looking forward to Sunday evening's Moon-Mercury-Pleiades setting and hope for clear weather.

Ren?

My starguide notes that to see the Pleiades a pair of binoculars is required. At the latitude of the Netherlands 52? north, the sky is too bright. At Mediterranean and more south latitudes people will have more chance to see the Pleiades with the naked eye.

During around the 30th Mercury will be in ecliptical conjunction with the Pleades. In the early morning (in Europe) of May 1st in conjunction with Alcyone.

johannes susato wrote:

matt23z wrote:I gather that the moon will occlude the pleiades as well.The Babylonian astrologers would have taken that quite seriously.

Matthew

As to the occlusion I have doubts. In my table of occultations by the Moon there are no Pleiades given for tonight, whereas in March (30.) Alcyone was listed; next of them will be Alcyone and Merope on the 18th of July. The Pleiades as a wohle group will not be occulted this year.

They will be occulted though, however only visible for people in Iceland, Lapland and Spitzbergen/Svalbard. High northern latitudes where the long dusk makes that this won't be visible with the naked eye. Geocentric occultations probably will take place later this year.

Here's a list of occultations: http://www.lunar-occultations.com/iota/ ... eiades.htm
if you click on 'view' when you find an occultation that takes place in your region then you get a map and a list of cities with occultation times, here the July 18th for Europe http://www.lunar-occultations.com/iota/ ... 8zc552.htm

Here's a list of first&last occultations of some bright stars, including Alcyone: http://www.guntherkonnen.com/downloads/ ... s_JBAA.pdf

Did anyone ever heard of the 'Pleiades Islands'? I didn't until a minute ago , http://www.dec.state.ak.us/spar/perp/gr ... island.pdf

But the extreme and visible conjunction remains. Do you have any idea how the Babylonians had judged this clusterum of the waxing Moon, Mercury and the Pleiades?

I have no idea but interesting is that the Pleiades are said to be of Moon and Mars nature (Tetrabiblos I.9). One part in the Venus ruled Taurus and the other (with Alcyone) in the Mercury ruled Gemini. If the Moon is with Alcyone tonight, she just left her exaltation. Sun also recently left his exaltation and just entered Taurus afew days ago. Mercury is still in Taurus, just before entering 'his' sign. Venus is just in Aries, short after leaving exaltation. Mars is alright in Aries.

Interesting is that if the Moon, Sun and Venus are 'clicked' one sign backwards or if you look from the sidereal zodiac reference, then these are all in their exaltation.

I must admit though that, since I feel most for the ideas of Kepler, I don't pay much attention to the signs and their exaltations and rulerships. They are an interesting subject but at least I would prefer a 'smooth' transition from sign to sign, which seems more natural to me than the 'sudden' switches at 0? of each sign.

Eddy wrote:

johannes susato wrote:

matt23z wrote:I gather that the moon will occlude the pleiades as well.The Babylonian astrologers would have taken that quite seriously.

Matthew

As to the occlusion I have doubts. In my table of occultations by the Moon there are no Pleiades given for tonight, whereas in March (30.) Alcyone was listed; next of them will be Alcyone and Merope on the 18th of July. The Pleiades as a wohle group will not be occulted this year.

They will be occulted though, however only visible for people in Iceland, Lapland and Spitzbergen/Svalbard. High northern latitudes where the long dusk makes that this won't be visible with the naked eye. Geocentric occultations probably will take place later this year.

This is complete correct: As to the Moon's occultations we should always differ between geocentric and local position ! She is so near to the earth that we must not neglect her parallax.

But with this specification it remains correct to say, that from north-western Europe (Great Britain, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany) there was no occultation of the Pleiades to be seen tonight because there was none.

Had somone the opportunity to see Mercury, the small crescent of the Moon and its dark disk and the Pleiades - complete or occulted and thus to verify my statement by sight? Here the sky was too hazy at that time.

Finally many thanks to Eddy for this detailed tabe of occultations!

johannes susato wrote:Had somone the opportunity to see Mercury, the small crescent of the Moon and its dark disk and the Pleiades - complete or occulted and thus to verify my statement by sight? Here the sky was too hazy at that time.

Same problem over here Johannes, just the usual 'occultation' by clouds as we in the Netherlands are used to .

Johannes / Eddy wrote
Had somone the opportunity to see Mercury, the small crescent of the Moon and its dark disk and the Pleiades - complete or occulted and thus to verify my statement by sight? Here the sky was too hazy at that time.

Same problem over here Johannes, just the usual 'occultation' by clouds as we in the Netherlands are used to Sad .

As a consolation, APOD today April 30, shows how it would have looked like...
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/

Ren?

Another wonderful picture Ren?, thanks. I haven't seen Mercury for a few days now, but I haven't looked for him either .

It is a great picture, thanks Rene. It's a pity that site doesn't offer permalinks.

I have failed in all of my attempts to see Mercury, and I am still trying!

Deb wrote:I have failed in all of my attempts to see Mercury, and I am still trying!

Sorry to read that Deb, as Mercury now is of magnitude +1 (about similar to Saturn) and is getting weaker and closer to the Sun then it will become more difficult to spot him in the evening sky. A clear sky is absolutely nessecary. Here in the Netherlands the Sun shines but as it has been hazy too there's little chance. Next challenge could be to look for the reappearance of Mars. He is getting further and further away of the Sun, just like neighbouring Venus. By the way, being fixed on Venus I've totally forgotten to look for Jupiter in the morning, this should be easy .

Deb wrote: It's a pity that site doesn't offer permalinks.

Yes I regret that, too. They used to do that until about a year ago, as you can see on this beautiful foto:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050821.html

Ren?

Thank you so much for the beautiful picture, Ren?!

I hadn't thought that the distance between Pleiades in the north and Mercury in the south would be as large as it is. And thus the Pleiades are really not occulted in the least.

Thanks again for this link to the stars!

Johannes

Deb wrote:As I understand it (or from what I've read), Venus is at its brightest approx 36 days before and after the inferior conjunction with the Sun. . . But that would mean that Venus is going to be at its brightest at the end of this month/start of May - is that right? It hardly seems possible that it can reach its greatest morning brilliance so soon.

Hi Deb,

but exactly this is affirmed by my ephemerides: tomorrow, Sat May 2, Venus at her brightest shine (March 27 having been the date of her inferior conjunction with the Sun. Difference 36 days, just as you said!).

Johannes

As suspected, the period of greatest brilliance was not, for me, comparable to the earlier experience - but it still gets me up early in the morning

Running across these quotes from Masha?allah?s treatise ?Of the Rains in the Year? (Dykes, p.309 ff.) makes me want to go back to some of the great posts from Eddy and Margherita on the first page of this thread. They both commented on the heavy rains that we had during the period of the conjunction. Masha?allah writes in his chapter (Dykes p.321) that there will be heavy rains during the period that Venus is under the rays, but if she is then oriental of the Sun (as now); ?it will be the beginning of dryness.?

So it will be interesting to monitor how that latter part of that aphorisms hold up to our ongoing observations. So far in Britain, since that period of heavy rains around the conjunction, the weather has mainly been sunny and pleasant. Of course this does not include the recent ?May day? bank holiday, because we have a policy in Britain of not allowing Sunshine on public holidays or during Wimbledon; but otherwise Masha?allah?s aphorism seems to be holding out so far.