GB wrote:Mark, This is a thread to discuss the World Cup football, not to discuss possible national charts. Please take this discussion to the Mundane forum, it is off-topic here.

Thanks.

Are contest charts considered the only possible way of looking at football matches then? I've always considered Sport just an extension of Mundane, just alot more focused.

Andrew, I agree it is rather confusing and is best just observed. I am not sure what to make of the PoF conjunct the MC in the 10th.

Deb wrote:

To clarify, although national charts are important considerations for national games, if it is the national chart itself that warrants attention then it is best to develop that discussion in the mundane section, so that only a link needs to be made to it here.

Fair enough. I was obviously getting a bit carried away on the research side. Like Amelia though I will be seeking to predict the winner based on national charts which I consider most radical for the countries concerned.

Mark

GP wrote:Are contest charts considered the only possible way of looking at football matches then? I've always considered Sport just an extension of Mundane, just alot more focused.

No . There are many ways of looking at a football match. National charts may well be of use, particularly in choosing the significators of the teams. The issue (now hopefully resolved) was about where to discuss the sources of the national charts anf their history. That is best discussed in the Mundane forum as there are probably other people knowledgeable on national charts who read that forum, but not this one.

I hope we can focus on discussion of the matches here. If you want to use a national chart as part of that, then it's fine. Just take the detailed discussion of a nation's history and the resulting charts over to Mundane

Uruguay v England. For those who use who kicked-off to assign significators - it was Uruguay.

Mark wrote:Like Amelia though I will be seeking to predict the winner based on national charts which I consider most radical for the countries concerned.

That's the spirit! What is your prediction, Mark? That is the best way in testing out theory and generally how we work at the sports section. We have to take the problems and our short-comings in our stride as we move along.

Sometimes it feels like a game of poker, though, with people holding their cards tight to their chest, not wanting to be exposed in case something goes wrong...

In my opinion, being an international competition, as it is a World Cup, it is important to note the charts of the countries disputing a macht, also we must also study the progressions and Solar Returns, and add numbers and Eclipses Ingress Aries.
I also observed the charts of Captain of the DT team and date the Foundation Federation o Association of Football the country.

Siderum wrote:In my opinion, being an international competition, as it is a World Cup, it is important to note the charts of the countries disputing a macht, also we must also study the progressions and Solar Returns, and add numbers and Eclipses Ingress Aries.

I agree, Sidereum, and I think that if you have anything to offer in terms of your observations it is most welcome. But as GB and Deb have pointed out, I believe the discussion regarding the signs associated with nations should be moved to the mundane section, while the discussion at the Sports section should be about the football. Now there is nothing wrong with having different approaches - the only important thing is to explain where we are coming from and what is our astrological reasoning, then we can see what works best. Mark entered the thread with showing his interest for Jupiter transiting through Cancer - and so far the Netherlands have done well. I think that contests like the World cup (and other stuff we do at the sports section) provides an excellent opportunity to explore how things work. There is the opportunity to put forward a thesis in terms of a prediction, or explain a combination of astrological alternatives that seems worth watching, and then we see how it all gets on. The next step is order our observations in a methodic manner and see how these theories play out in later occasions. But the astrological patterns are always changing, so it is an excellent exercise in balancing our judgement.

On page 2 Janis wrote:June 20, 13:00, Arena Pernambuco 08S 02 24, 35W 00 29.
Italy (Jupiter) - Costa Rica (Mars)
Odds 1.35 5.00 10.00

ASC 27 LI 13, MC 22 CN 00, POF 08 LE 32, Moon 10AR 33
Day and hour Venus,

The chart is radical. The Moon squares Pluto and opposes Mars, her dispositor. The Sun (Leo) is close trine to ASC. Jupiter is 2 degrees away from the degree of MC. Jupiter is in superior position to Mars.

Personally, I regard Italy as Leo, but I reckon Jupiter is Janis' theory on colour method. I have guests - so I will have to look at the chart after breakfast.

Andrew Bevan wrote:

That's the spirit! What is your prediction, Mark?

Hi Andrew,

I obviously entered this rather late. Unlike Amelia I never went through all the charts before the competition. As I said to you before I am something of a dabbler here as I only look at Football during the World Cup.

I am also participating in several threads across Skyscript. Plus moderating the mundane forum. Football is not at the top of my priority list right now!

So at this late stage I think the best I can realistically do is analyse the charts of the main contenders when we get to the next group stage. I will open a separate thread displaying all the charts with my prediction so as not to disturb the flow around contest charts here any further.

Andrew Bevan wrote:

That is the best way in testing out theory and generally how we work at the sports section.

It will not resolve whether national charts work. They obviously do. But it will help assess the radicality of the particular charts chosen. Either that or it will highlight limitations of the techniques used. That is my main focus really.

Andrew Bevan wrote:

Sometimes it feels like a game of poker, though, with people holding their cards tight to their chest, not wanting to be exposed in case something goes wrong...

I suppose there are some people here who have reputations to lose in predicting this. Personally that is not the issue. I have absolutely nothing to lose as I am no authority on sports or sports astrology. I dont mind taking a punt and seeing what happens. I have done that many times in political astrology where I have much more of a personal investment. Its just that the national chart approach is quite time consuming. For me its just a question of TIME.

Mark

Hi there,

today I can not find the time to check on prediction of World Cup matches, but following the previous discussion on using a country chart for predictions, I would just "offer" a though.

Should we really consider to be technically valid to use a country chart for a football game prediction? I am not so sure and my reason is that, in the end, this is nothing but a football game, and not really something I would expect to have any "hints" in the national chart. Things like the fall of a regime, large economic problems, etc., are the kind of things I would expect to be able to extract from a country's chart.

(I hope I can get my message pass through..)


Jo?o Ventura

Jventura wrote:

Should we really consider to be technically valid to use a country chart for a football game prediction? I am not so sure and my reason is that, in the end, this is nothing but a football game, and not really something I would expect to have any "hints" in the national chart. Things like the fall of a regime, large economic problems, etc., are the kind of things I would expect to be able to extract from a country's chart.

I think you want to judge qualification games contest charts are probably the way to go.

National charts is more of a big picture approach to see if a country is resonating with something like a World cup win.

Just think what a boost to national esteem winning the world Cup would be to a country? In the United Kingdom, English commentators still regularly mention their 1966 Team when the country last won the World Cup. That was almost 50 years ago! The good feel factor from such an event is exceedingly strong. The only exception might be countries like USA or Australia where football is not really that significant a part of their national sports culture. For that reason the USA chart is one of the harder countries to use this method with.

You can combine this with the chart for the final to help judge the winner. Plus you can assign angles based on sign associations from the national charts. So the two methods are not necessarily contradictory.

However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Lets just see rather than debate it!

Mark