Skyscript Astrology Forum

i am trying to wrap my head around this concept to understand it better.. i found this link below to show some of what i have been reading.. does this fit in with the concept that jupiter can only aspect the 5th, 9th, mars the 4,7 and 8th and saturn the 10th, 7th and 3rd?

thanks for any ideas on how to understand this concept better.. also, if you have any comments on how planetary friendships / or not - is expressed differently in tropical , that would be great too.,.

http://astroveda.wikidot.com/planetary-relationships

james_m wrote:i am trying to wrap my head around this concept to understand it better.. i found this link below to show some of what i have been reading.. does this fit in with the concept that jupiter can only aspect the 5th, 9th, mars the 4,7 and 8th and saturn the 10th, 7th and 3rd?

thanks for any ideas on how to understand this concept better.. also, if you have any comments on how planetary friendships / or not - is expressed differently in tropical , that would be great too.,.

http://astroveda.wikidot.com/planetary-relationships

Hi James: Yes, I agree this is a tough concept in Hindu astrology and actually a very advanced level of integration in chart reading.

First of all, it has nothing to do with the special aspects (drishti) of the planets. So forget that.

Relationships between the planets have different schools of thought from the simple to the complex. This particular "traditional" notion is the most complex and is repeated in all of the texts. Most Jyotishis tend to ignore temporary friendships and only consider natural friendships or use one based on the Triplicities. Compound relationships are used in calculating shad bala (six strengths) too.

As a learner, my advice is stick to using natural friendships for now and come back to the compound relationships later if you want. There are many such Looney Tune "Acme Holes" in Hindu astrology to trip up Learners so don't sweat it.

All I can do is re-explain the principles and hope it makes a bit more sense to you.

I feel the compound relationship system is overly complicated that leads to contradictions and is an accordingly redundant method. But with that said...

This is a convoluted system. That's why you need all of the tables in front of you while delineating to keep track. It's actually two concepts that are reconciled (compounded) in the end.

Planets (Grahas) can only be friends (Mitra) or enemies (Shatru). Think of the signs (Rashis) as regions or places, while the Grahas (planets) are living entities. A Graha is friendly in a sign (place) if it is friendly with the owner of that place (sign).

There are natural friendships and temporary friendships.
Natural friendships according to Parashara are signs that are 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, and 12th from the MT sign of a Graha (planet) and the lord of the exalted sign of that Graha are its friends. If not they are enemies. If a Graha is both a friend and an enemy with another due to ruling two houses it is neutral.
Let's take a simple example if Mars' MT sign is Aries, Saturn rules the 10th and 11th signs which are enemy places according to the rule above; Mars is exalted in Capricorn so Saturn is neutral to Mars. Venus rules the second and seventh signs from Aries, the second sign Taurus is a friendly sign but the seventh sign Libra is an enemy so Venus being both a friend and an enemy is neutral to Mars.

Temporary Friendships are based on the relative positions of Grahas in the chart. If the Grahas (planets) are in the same sign or more than four signs away they are temporary enemies, or 5, 6, 7. 8 or 9.
There are always six temporary enemy places and six temporary friendship places.

To calculate the final result it is the total of these two and is called a compound relationship and is always specific to a particular chart.
To continue the example above if Aries is the first house with Mars residing there giving a seventh house glance to Venus in its own house, Libra then Mars and Venus are naturally neutral to each other but are temporary enemies so the planetary relationship goes towards neutrality to animosity. In a chart like this all things being equal you would expect that the marriage relationship and partnerships in life would follow the same pattern.

I hope this helps.

thanks aj!

it is more complicated then i understand.. i am always curious of the basis for the rules, but i doubt i will figure that out here.. i am just getting ready to go away for a couple of days and have a busy week right after i get back.. i have some questions to ask you about this, but i am going to come back to your post later and try to articulate the questions when i get back..

thanks aj.. i really like your suggestion to stick to the natural friendships and maybe come back to the compound relationships later.. thank you for that in particular..

hi aj

i wanted to come back to this thread you kindly provided... i left a pm for you a few days ago as well..

i am trying to wrap my head around the idea of planets in fall and detriment and this idea of planet friends/enemies... it doesn't make a clear fit! for example - the moon has no enemies, and yet it still has the classification of being in detriment in cap and in fall in scorpio.. the moons relationship with saturn and mars ( venus and jupiter) is described as neutral...

maybe i shouldn't try to understand planetary relationships this way, but i am! another example - mars is saturns enemy.. saturn is in it's fall in aries, but not in scorpio.. in fact - maybe it has to do with the concept of houses... aries is 4th house to cap - saturn ruler.. scorpio is 11th or 10th house to cap and aquarius - the two signs associated with saturn.. is that some of the reason for these differences? or how about this one - mars is in it's fall in cancer, but it is friends with the moon.. again though - cancer is 4th sign to aries, so it would seem a planet in the 4th sign to it's rulership is not a favourable set up with mars and saturn.. it seems to work differently with the other planets.. maybey the idea of tying these 2 concepts together is unproductive, and i am barking up the wrong tree trying to understand all this better.. i'll stop here for now... thanks..

AJ wrote:
Planets (Grahas) can only be friends (Mitra) or enemies (Shatru). Think of the signs (Rashis) as regions or places, while the Grahas (planets) are living entities. A Graha is friendly in a sign (place) if it is friendly with the owner of that place (sign).

There are natural friendships and temporary friendships.
Natural friendships according to Parashara are signs that are 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, and 12th from the MT sign of a Graha (planet) and the lord of the exalted sign of that Graha are its friends. If not they are enemies. If a Graha is both a friend and an enemy with another due to ruling two houses it is neutral.
Let's take a simple example if Mars' MT sign is Aries, Saturn rules the 10th and 11th signs which are enemy places according to the rule above; Mars is exalted in Capricorn so Mars is neutral to Saturn.

james_m wrote: i am trying to wrap my head around the idea of planets in fall and detriment and this idea of planet friends/enemies... it doesn't make a clear fit! for example - the moon has no enemies, and yet it still has the classification of being in detriment in cap and in fall in scorpio.. the moons relationship with saturn and mars ( venus and jupiter) is described as neutral...

maybe i shouldn't try to understand planetary relationships this way, but i am! another example - mars is saturns enemy.. saturn is in it's fall in aries, but not in scorpio.. in fact - maybe it has to do with the concept of houses... aries is 4th house to cap - saturn ruler.. scorpio is 11th or 10th house to cap and aquarius - the two signs associated with saturn.. is that some of the reason for these differences?

Hi James: To begin, there are several systems to determine planetary relationships within Hindu astrology. This system is the one most touted in just about all of the available texts and it won't jive with planetary relationships based on sign rulership and exaltations. There is no parallel I know of in western astrology. There is no neat way to resolve the two relationship systems.

Not all Hindu astrologers use this rather cumbersome system, just as not all use the system of malefics and benefics for each ascendant found in chapter 34 or so of BPHS but yet it is in all of the texts too.

There are many subsystems within Hindu astrology that makes learning it considerably harder. Differing Western systems are more clearly defined and less confusing to learn IMO. i.e. Cosmobiology vs. Huber for instance.

Note again that most Jyotishis tend to ignore temporary friendships and only consider natural friendships or use one based on the Triplicities, or sign rulership.

aj - thanks for clarifying that for me... and thanks again for mentioning the natural, veses temporary friends idea which i am adhering to.. thanks!