Skyscript Astrology Forum

i did a post on the mundane forum on this with tropical zodiac chart...

here is the sidereal chart for this horrific event... i wanted to ask about the concept of malefics and benefics based on the rising sign in charts.. in this chart - taurus rising - planets that rule the angles are considered benefics? have i got that right? planets ruling house 6, 8 and 12 are generally viewed as malefics? most planets rule 2 houses, so it gets confusing.. mars rules the decendant and 12th house and is rising in the chart, while in it's determent... for me mars has a lot of strength by being in the ascendant.. the idea that it rules the 7th, so it can be classified as a benefic is confusing to me! meanwhile jupiter is in the 8th by sign, but clearly angular in nature here.. since it rules the 8th and 11th - it seems powerful in bringing a focus onto the 8th house dynamics, highlighting the position of saturn as well...

so, obviously i am trying to gleam an indian astrology perspective here and thought that by saying what i did in the 1st paragraph, i might solicit some conversation~!~ i am curious about how others interpret this event chart, but of course if you don't say anything - you won't look stupid like me!!! thanks for reading this either way... feedback most welcome..

more - this concept of planets in detriment having no strength is clearly offset by a planet being in an angle.. i am not sure how shadbala software would process this conflict, but it seems to me all ideas in astrology are relative and not conclusive... and of course - hellenistic astro - the malefic of the opposite sect here is mars... so, does an indian astrologer weigh the presence of jupiter in sag retro as extremely strong here - stronger then the mars in the ascendant? seeing as jupiter rules the 8th house of death - it seems like it is functioning very strongly as well, but as a malefic as indian astrology suggests..

The Terrorist chart for Sri Lanka doesn't follow traditional Indian concepts as at least some sources give Mars as a benefic for a Taurus ascendant. The Fagan school ingress of the Sun into Aries is more revealing of this traumatic event as the nodes (always prominent in charts that affect large numbers of people) are on the Asc (Rahu) Desc (Ketu) axis. This places the Saturn/Ketu/Pluto stellium on the 7th angle opposing the ascendant.

7th lord Jupiter's very critical position 18 minutes into Sagittarius is trine the Sun near the MC/NG. I'm sure this has something to do with the event, but I'm not a mundane astrologer. Edgar Cayce linked firearms with Pluto, so the affliction in the ingress chart isn't from Mars, as that planet doesn't connect with chart angles. If anyone wants to set up the Aries Ingress chart (Krishnamurti) the time is 11:46:25 AM, April 14, 2019, Colombo, Sri Lanka. (If I can find time, I may post this chart later.)

Neptune is in partile trine from the 9th to the ascendant, 3 minutes orb. I expect if the precise positions in this chart were carefully analyzed by degree and minute (fixed stars? Khullar Kalamsa minutes and seconds?) these positions would be significant.

None of this is either Parashara or Jaimini astrology.

thanks for sharing your thoughts therese!

my main purpose is practical and in a spiritual direction too! the way i see it, my focus on understanding astrology can't be compartmentalized.. either an astrological concept has application and merit, or it doesn't.. it doesn't matter what field of astrology it's being applied to..

this was the starting time for an event which was clearly horrible.. if someone had of approached an astrologer for insight on when to start an event like this, what would have the astrologer been looking for to strengthen the success of it? this is just a hypothetical question and not applicable here, but hopefully you get my point.. whether it is electional astrology, mundane astrology, or an astrologer trying to figure out the meaning of the astrology, i see the use of the symbols and ideas - astrological techniques and etc as being a basic building block to it all..

thanks for sharing your insights and understanding of indian astrology.. i have learned something from you here.. cheers james

Therese Hamilton wrote:Since the main purpose of India's astrology is for practical and spiritual direction and help, mundane astrology has small emphasis, and what is there was no doubt imported, probably in medieval times. In my many shelves of books on Indian astrology, only one is devoted to mundane astrology.

Obviously the Terrorist chart for Sri Lanka does not follow traditional Indian concepts as Mars is a benefic for a Taurus ascendant. The Fagan school ingress of the Sun into Aries is more revealing of this traumatic event as the nodes (always prominent in charts that affect large numbers of people) are on the Asc (Rahu) Desc (Ketu) axis. This places the Saturn/Ketu/Pluto stellium on the 7th angle opposing the ascendant.

7th lord Jupiter's very critical position 18 minutes into Sagittarius is trine the Sun near the MC/NG. I'm sure this has something to do with the event, but I'm not a mundane astrologer. Edgar Cayce linked firearms with Pluto, so the affliction in the ingress chart isn't from Mars, as that planet doesn't connect with chart angles. If anyone wants to set up the Aries Ingress chart (Krishnamurti) the time is 11:46:25 AM, April 14, 2019, Colombo, Sri Lanka. (If I can find time, I may post this chart later.)

Neptune is in partile trine from the 9th to the ascendant, 3 minutes orb. I expect if the precise positions in this chart were carefully analyzed by degree and minute (fixed stars? Khullar Kalamsa minutes and seconds?) these positions would be significant.

None of this is either Parashara or Jaimini astrology. Mundane astrology has western roots.

The reason the KP (Krishnamurti) and Khullar Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks Theories were discovered/developed is because these pioneering astrologers found that many of the sacred (but not tested) classical principles did not work consistently in practice. These systems claim instead that symbolic validity lies in designated, even very small portions of the ecliptic/zodiac and how houses and planets link to each other via minute portions of the zodiac. But the birth time has to be very precise, almost to the second.

The classical Indian Nadi system depends on very small degree areas of a few minutes, and the west had a lost system of interpretation based on minute areas of the zodiac. Are we in the process of discovering this lost system? I don't know.

The time of the Sri Lanka Terrorist attack is most likely not precise enough to test these theories, but the Aries Ingress is timed to the second. So I'll set that chart up in an Indian program that has the required interchanges of the Ascendant, houses and planets.

We're at a point in time, I believe, when we can no longer take astrological principles in either east or west on simple belief. Perhaps we can't go much beyond the 12 sign zodiac and ruling and exalted planets (and in India the 27 lunar mansions). If astrologers don't want to spend time in research we may be at a dead end for now. We're tying to thread a needle with a baseball glove.

James wrote

Here is the sidereal chart for this horrific event... i wanted to ask about the concept of malefics and benefics based on the rising sign in charts. in this chart - Taurus rising - planets that rule the angles are considered benefics? Have i got that right? Planets ruling house 6, 8 and 12 are generally viewed as malefics? most planets rule 2 houses, so it gets confusing.. mars rules the decendant and 12th house and is rising in the chart, while in it's determent...

for me mars has a lot of strength by being in the ascendant.. the idea that it rules the 7th, so it can be classified as a benefic is confusing to me! meanwhile jupiter is in the 8th by sign, but clearly angular in nature here.. since it rules the 8th and 11th - it seems powerful in bringing a focus onto the 8th house dynamics, highlighting the position of saturn as well...

I decided to check the ascendant lists for malefic and benefic planets from various authors. And the results surprised me! These lists don’t totally agree with each other. For example Dr. K.S. Charak (Elements of Vedic Astrology, Vol. 1, 1995, p. 87) lists Mars as a maraka (death influcting planet) for a Taurus ascendant, while James Braha (The Art and Practice of Ancient Hindu Astrology, 2001, p. 381 lists Mars as “good??? for a Taurus ascendant. A few other books I checked don’t give a table of ascendants/malefic and benefic planets, but discusses them in paragraph form in various configurations with other planets.

Dr.Charak has quite a good discussion on planets in relation to ascendants, and I realized that his book is probably the best brief introduction to India’s astrology available, as he is a native of India and an excellent scholar as well. So I would recommend his book over others by western authors including Hart DeFouw’s Light on Life. LoL has quite a number of concepts that have made their way into India’s astrology from the west since the 1990s. Also the book is dense to read, and most suitable for advanced students. Dr. Charak’s book is strictly “Indian??? in tone, and thus is more authentic. Elements of Vedic Astrology is in two volumes, but the most basics of basics are in volume 1. These are easy volumes to read, not a lot of text, and plenty of charts and diagrams. Very different from Light on Life.

James, I realize you are trying to get a firm grasp of India's astrology, and I commend you for that. But these days most contemporary books are mixing western concepts with classical Indian precepts. So it's best to work only with basics for awhile, and leave the complexities for later. Another excellent book I always recommend for a clear picture of the differences between western and India's astrology is Valerie J. Roebuck's Circle of Stars. But that book is more historical and the focus isn't on learning to interpret horoscopes.

I'll have more to say about the Sri Lankan terrorist attack a little later.

hi therese,

thanks for your comments here the past few days.. i have another gig in a few hours, but want to thank you for sharing your viewpoints and insights.. i have quoted the part from you below, as i think it is worth focusing on..

with regard to the sri lanka event, one of the curiosities that has my attention is mars in taurus in the sidereal chart...it strengthens my attraction to sidereal astrology in fact.. mars is in gemini in the tropical chart... the difference to me seems to be that mars in taurus can act a lot more malicious and bad in a sign it doesn't function well in - a sign opposite the one it rules.. thus, it's ability to be a very unfavorable energy is amplified here in the event chart as i see it.. it is strong by house position in the ascendant... but it is strong for all the wrong reasons... it has a connection to the 8th house sag - as this is one of the 100% aspects mars makes to the sag planets.. to me it seems like mars is fully operative here in the worst sense possible..

so, the concept that it is a benefic in a taurus rising chart doesn't cut it with me.. maybe if it was in a different sign like scorpio, it could function better and not result in the horrible dynamic that this combo of planets brought to these innocent people in sri lanka, but i don't know.. fact is, to my mind, mars in taurus - the sidereal chart, not the tropical one - and mars 100% aspects - to the 8th house here, suggests to me that mars is acting very well for all the worst reasons it is capable of.. and, of course doing this chart is based on my own individual research too! as an astrologer i am happy to do research to the best of my abilities.. i am sure you are the same! we all do what we can!

on a related note to your comment about the 27 lunar mansions, i note the mansion of the moon here is the same one that my moon is in at birth... from everything i have read, the connection to this event with the moon in this mansion makes sense..

one can also say that jupiter in sag retro in the 8th is a malefic here.. this makes a lot of sense, as ruler of the 8th with saturn, pluto, and ketu in the 8th... in fact, any benefic energy associated with jupiter seems to have been ruined by it's relationship to mars in this chart... mars is functioning in the worst way possible and has a direct influence over jupiter here too - all for the negative... while this same mars has great bearing on the sun- 12th house conjunction - all in a negative light as i see it - venus in pisces seems to have no effect on the chart in a positive sense..

here is my thinking on venus... venus is different rising, then it is setting - i forget the words for this - vespertine verses ? .. here it is warrior goddess going after what it considers of value but as a result of the dominance of a hugely problematic mars it is for all the wrong reasons... this venus rules the 6th house moon as well.. the moon rules the 3rd - the 8th from the 8th...

that's it for now.. i have to go.. thanks especially for both posts therese and the most recent one that i am not able to comment on at this time... maybe later tonight! thanks..

Therese Hamilton wrote: We're at a point in time, I believe, when we can no longer take astrological principles in either east or west on simple belief. Perhaps we can't go much beyond the 12 sign zodiac and ruling and exalted planets (and in India the 27 lunar mansions). If astrologers don't want to spend time in research we may be at a dead end for now. We're tying to thread a needle with a baseball glove.

Oh, thank you for the ingress chart, James! I'll edit this post later so my comments will be directly under the ingress chart.

EDIT: 3 MAY 2019

Aries Ingress Chart Prior to Sri Lankan Terrorist Attacks (Krishnamurti ayanamsa)

To begin with this chart has a Gemini ascendant, and according to the traditional classics, Sun, Mars and Jupiter are malefics for a Gemini ascendant. This is per Dr. K.S. Charak who has a ten page discussion of benefics and malefics for various ascendants in Volume 1 of Elements of Vedic Astrology, 1995, pp. 79-89.) Highly recommended!

In the Indian Practical Mundane Astrology: Basic Principles (1989), J. C.Luthra gives “war, arms and ammunition??? to Saturn (p. 55) and “war, battles, open warfare??? to the 7th house as well as “territorial attacks??? to the 6th house (p. 54). Also to Saturn he gives “national calamities.??? (p. 35)

He says of Ketu: “Ketu in Hindu astrology is akin to Mars and gives the result of Mars???. Luthra also says that Ketu signifies “war and death in the battlefield.??? (p.47) All of these are relevant to the KP/Khullar analysis below.

This book was published before the current epidemic of terrorist attacks, so these aren’t mentioned in Luthra’s book. But “war, arms and ammunition??? suffice. Luthra doesn’t give references or a bibliography, so we don’t know the sources for material in his book except his own personal research, and some reliance on Varaha Mihira’s Brihat Samhita (mentioned in his second book). He does mention that he has studied both eastern and western astrology, but he is an Indian native and uses the sidereal zodiac.

Now for the KP and Khullar type analysis, which is truly interesting. K.S. Krishnamurti devised the original KP method based on the 27 lunar mansions (nakshatras) which he and Khullar shorten to simply “stars.???

S. P. Khullar developed the KP method further by adding emphasis on the second sub period. That is, the lunar mansion is the “star??? of the planet, the further division into nine is the “sub??? and that division into nine is the sub-sub or sub2 division of each “star??? or lunar mansion. The planets that rule these divisions emphasize various houses and link them together.

The Aries ingress chart for the Sir Lankan attacks looks dire enough with Saturn/Ketu/Pluto on the 7th cusp. A western astrologer might see the partile trine of Jupiter to the exalted Sun near the mid-heaven as a saving grace, but that aspect doubly compounds the malefic tone of the chart.

Here’s why: The KP Sun is in Ketu’s star and Ketu’s sub divisions. Jupiter is in Ketu’s star and sub and Mars sub2. So we next look at the position of Ketu which is on the 7th cusp between Saturn and Pluto. Also Jupiter’s sub2 Mars planet is the lord of the 6th house and located in the 12th (equal cusps at the centers of houses). The positions of the star, sub and sub2 planets are the primary keys to how a chart operates.

The ascendant sets the tone for all the other houses, and right away Jupiter in the 6th is implicated as both the ascendant and Rahu are in Jupiter’s star in Gemini. If we want to continue to the sub planet, that is Saturn in the 7th with Ketu.

So taking only planets from the ascendant we have Saturn (sub of Jupiter star), a wholly malefic Jupiter (ascendant Jupiter star) pointing to Ketu (Jupiter in Ketu star) influence on the 7th cusp with Saturn and Pluto. It is only through the KP/Khullar system that we see the close link of Jupiter (and the Sun) to Ketu, which seals the fate of the chart.

Here is a diagram of the pattern:

Asc in Jupiter star---->Jupiter in 6th in Ketu’s star---->Ketu in 7th between Saturn and Pluto.

Asc in Saturn’s sub---->Saturn , lord of 8th on 7th cusp with Ketu

Asc in Rahu’s sub2---->Rahu is in Jupiter’s star---->Jupiter in 6th in Ketu’s star

Saturn-Ketu-Pluto are in Sagittarius which takes the action back again to the 6th house Jupiter. These configurations are the primary focus of a more complex KP picture.

For anyone interested, in another post I’ll post links to an site what explains the basics of the KP system and has the KP star, sub and sub2 tables.

hi therese,

i got tired of looking at white screens, so i went with the black.. i find it easier on the eyes, but printing it would be ink consuming...

i use postimages.org as the site for uploading charts to..
https://postimages.org/

you can always make the charts on your astro prog and save them.. all that is required is entering the data... i look forward to any additional comments you have to make on the sri lanka charts up above..

i wanted to also draw attention to the sri lanka prime ministers comments from the past day which express a concern about additional terrorist attacks...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sri-lanka ... -1.5115328

and finally, i want to draw a line between iran and sri lanka, as i wonder how much these attacks are an attempt to convince sri lanka to be less supportive of trade with iran.. these are open questions to me at this point..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%8 ... _relations

but, i will just come out and say this publicly as it is becoming a question that needs an answer... today, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, (self declared caliph of ISIS) reappeared in a video.. he has been out of the scene for about 5 years.. there was a line drawn from it that turkey might be in isis's sights... it seems to me that the usa-israel have the most to gain from maintaining the life of isis.... i know this runs counter to everything the western msm openly says, but for anyone who wants an alternative take, read this link...

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/04/b ... l#comments

it seems to me isis is a made in the usa-israel project, with strong support from the ksa headchopping cult... i am trying to wrap my head around the long game plan here and terrorist activities in sri lanka.. this is what i have come up with so far - more speculation..

here is another chart that can be considered for use in understanding the astrology of this event as it pertains to sri lanka... this is the republic of sri lanka chart that is said to have been chosen as an auspicious date by sri lanka astrologers..



the overlay of the transits for the easter sunday terrorist attack on this chart are fairly clear to see..

I have finally been able to add details about the Sri Lankan Terrorist Aries Ingress to my April 29 post above. For anyone interested, there is a good Internet site (AstroSage) that gives a KP (Krisnamurti) tutorial:

http://kpastrology.astrosage.com/Home

Home page of AstroSage

http://kpastrology.astrosage.com/refere ... ary-number

These are the KP star/sub/sub-sub planetary tables. The format isn't compact as the tables in the Khullar books are. The tables are the same for signs in trine. As for example, Aries, Leo and Saguttarius have the same star and sub lords.

http://kpastrology.astrosage.com/Home/t ... /chapter-2

This is a good KP tutorial.

Following K. S. Krisnamurti's original system, Khullar uses Placidus cusps. But I've found that equal cusps work quite well for the KP system. It's possible that Krishnamurti used Placidus cusps because he was dependent on European tables for his calculations. He most likely never tested equal house cusps.

With the KP/Khullar method I use equal cusps placed at the centers of houses. S.P. Khullar makes the Placidus cusps the beginning of houses. It's up to all of us as astrologers to test methods and reach our own conclusions. My own tests indicate that planets in Placidus houses are not accurate and don't match the actual life of a person. But house cusps are an important area for future research.

Another change I make from Khullar is that I use the 10th house for the father rather than the 9th. There is disagreement in India about which of those two houses represents the father.

hi therese

thanks for going into detail about how the kp system appears to work..i had noticed that the nakshatras have rulers and did wonder how exactly that plays out when a planet is in a particular nakshatra with the ruler having some sort of say in all this.. it is interesting how you have tied it together here in the aries ingress set to colombo.. would any astrologer have made a prediction based off this chart? or, perhaps more relevant - how many people would use this chart for any type of predictive work? as i see it the aries ingress chart has a long tradition in western astrology, but i am completely in the dark the role that it plays in sidereal astrology...

perhaps others here like martin or? are able to comment on my last sentence.. it would be good to know..

thanks again therese for going into detail and providing an astrological analysis of the aries ingress and this kp system that i am not sure what to make of... cheers james