Skyscript Astrology Forum

dear linchi,

i appreciate all you do! regarding the topics of research and prediction, it is necessary to do research in order to be able to potentially make a prediction.. the more research the better... not everyone relies on midpoints and higher numbered harmonics.. i continue to be curious and intrigued with your research..

as i see it we both share an ongoing interest in alfred wittes work, the hamburg school and the ideas around cosmobiology.. my own take on all this is that i have not examined or researched the hypothetical planets that both witte and sieggruen have come up with.. i have focused only on the more traditional planets including what today is called the outer planets..

as i understand your approach, which you can correct me if i am wrong, you rely on higher harmonics and midpoints.. there may be other elements to your system, but this is what it looks like based on my reading your posts.. you also include the hypothetical planets from witte and sieggruen and you work with higher harmonics - 64, 128, 256, 1024 which as i understand are all extensions of the number 4 series harmonics...

in fact solar fire can generate these higher harmonic charts and one can do biwheels and etc to see various connections thru the use of midpoints.. one other characteristic of your charts appears to be the use of midpoints to midpoints, as opposed to only planets to midpoints... do i have this correct?

as i see it we are trying to bring greater harmony and understanding to each other thru our unique understanding of astrology.. we really need to be serving and helping others who are not able to understand the intricacies of all of our insight and wisdom gotten from astrology.. i am sure you want to and try to do this too!

if all the research we do can't be turned into some type of advice or insight into what the future holds for others, then it seems only half of the yin yang of astrology is being cultivated.. i continue to believe research and prediction need to go hand in hand.. without a prediction, the research doesn't hold the value and potential it is capable of offering.. thru prediction we are forced to see what we might be missing and work towards better understanding what is, or isn't useful in all our research work..

i remember making the transition from using secondary progressions - a technique supposedly started by placidus who was unhappy with profections, to using solar arc directions which i probably first learned about many years ago thru ebertins work which i was exposed to at an early age... the pedigree to solar arc directions predates the hamburg school and was probably a very old technique as well. teh idea of a degree per year must go back at least from hellenistic astrology, if not further as i understand it.. why it fell out of use, i don't know.. i still continue to put much faith in it, although i don't believe it is a fool proof system or method either!

out of curiousity, i took my own chart and studied the 4th harmonic closely... i wanted to see how much it was replicated in the higher 4th series harmonics - 16, 64, 128 and etc... it seems if the aspect or midpoint is fairly tight, some, but not all of the same data shows up in the higher series harmonics.. i am curious why you believe the higher series harmonics are necessary? i am also curious why you believe they are more significant or relevant then the lower series 4th harmonics...

i continue to believe that all research, while critical and necessary, needs to be grounded in prediction.. without the predictive part, i think the observations and theories gotten via the research are inconclusive.. perhaps i can explain it better giving a music example... i can work on technique in my music studies - this is in fact what i do - but it is not until i am in the experience of playing music with others, that i can see just how well or not my concepts and ideas are able to come out in a spontaneous and relevant manner.. i think it is not a perfect analogy, but there are many similarities with doing research and having your ideas put to the test in the moment thru prediction, advice or counselling.. the feedback from others, or from making predictions is invaluable..

regardless of all of what i say here linchi, i admire what you are doing and wish you much success! i was away all last week and not able to reply properly to you post to me last week.. thanks for your ongoing posts and sharing with us here at skyscript... james

james_m wrote: as i see it we both share an ongoing interest in alfred wittes work, the hamburg school and the ideas around cosmobiology.. my own take on all this is that i have not examined or researched the hypothetical planets that both witte and sieggruen have come up with.. i have focused only on the more traditional planets including what today is called the outer planets..

You do not always need The Transneptunians. But some events cannot be explained astrologically without them. In my opinion, an astrologer should take from the astrological schools that what is useful and right.

as i understand your approach, which you can correct me if i am wrong, you rely on higher harmonics and midpoints.. there may be other elements to your system, but this is what it looks like based on my reading your posts.. you also include the hypothetical planets from witte and sieggruen and you work with higher harmonics - 64, 128, 256, 1024 which as i understand are all extensions of the number 4 series harmonics...

It is the power of two , 16,32,64,128,256 etc. But I use 16,64, 256, 1024 etc., you can see harmonoic 512 in the Zet because of the red dot if you only look at harmonic 256. If the red dot, where the square position shows , does not exist in your program, you must also check harmonic 32, 128, 512 etc. If I would use Nova Chartwheels, I would only use harmonic 16 and 256, because in these two harmonics circles you can see all harmonics.

in fact solar fire can generate these higher harmonic charts and one can do biwheels and etc to see various connections thru the use of midpoints.. one other characteristic of your charts appears to be the use of midpoints to midpoints, as opposed to only planets to midpoints... do i have this correct?

It is correct and very very important. If we want to understand an event or a characteristic of a person , we have to examine the planet pictures not only single planets. That is, it could be so, for example as a transit: It can be planet to midpoint or midpoint to midpoint.
transit X = natal Y/Z,
transit X/Y = natal X/Y
transit X/Y = natal Z

It is a technique from the Hamburg School. In Hamburg School there are for many events one or more planet pictures , which show the event. e.g. for marriage Venus/Node. If we want to make predictions, e.g. about marriage, we have to examine the progressed/return Venus/Node axis, whether with natal planet or planet picture forms harmonic . It could look like this : Solar Venus/Node = natal Venus/Node

as i see it we are trying to bring greater harmony and understanding to each other thru our unique understanding of astrology.. we really need to be serving and helping others who are not able to understand the intricacies of all of our insight and wisdom gotten from astrology.. i am sure you want to and try to do this too!

Of course I do that too. Therefore I try to answer all questions as best as I can. I am also open to any criticism about my researches and I would be happy if someone would tell my mistakes.

if all the research we do can't be turned into some type of advice or insight into what the future holds for others, then it seems only half of the yin yang of astrology is being cultivated.. i continue to believe research and prediction need to go hand in hand.. without a prediction, the research doesn't hold the value and potential it is capable of offering.. thru prediction we are forced to see what we might be missing and work towards better understanding what is, or isn't useful in all our research work..

Of course I agree with you, without predictions, my researches has no relevance.
I research where astrologers do not have so much knowledge e.g. suicide or cancer diseases. I assume that many astrologers have such cases in their surroundings.
They should check whether they can confirm my research or not. They can also bring examples anonymously and ask questions.

i remember making the transition from using secondary progressions - a technique supposedly started by placidus who was unhappy with profections, to using solar arc directions which i probably first learned about many years ago thru ebertins work which i was exposed to at an early age... the pedigree to solar arc directions predates the hamburg school and was probably a very old technique as well. teh idea of a degree per year must go back at least from hellenistic astrology, if not further as i understand it.. why it fell out of use, i don't know.. i still continue to put much faith in it, although i don't believe it is a fool proof system or method either!

Solar arc directions as far as I know were discovered by Alfred Witte. I think it is a good technique. Zet does not calculate the solar arcs with sidereal Zodiac. Therefore I do not use it. The progressions and returns I use are more than enough, I think.

out of curiousity, i took my own chart and studied the 4th harmonic closely... i wanted to see how much it was replicated in the higher 4th series harmonics - 16, 64, 128 and etc... it seems if the aspect or midpoint is fairly tight, some, but not all of the same data shows up in the higher series harmonics.. i am curious why you believe the higher series harmonics are necessary? i am also curious why you believe they are more significant or relevant then the lower series 4th harmonics...

It's like asking why we need MRI equipment when we have normal X-ray equipment.
Because we cannot see everything ,we need to see, in harmonic-4 or harmonic-16. If we could know everything from the horoscope, we would not have needed any harmonics at all, not even harmonic-4. The planet pictures I discovered would already have been found by the hamburg school or by others if the higher harmonics had not been needed.
The second reason is that with higher harmonics we can precisely determine the birthtime and event time. The higher harmonics are a great help not only for astrologers but also for the medical doctors and forensic doctors, because the time of death can be determined much more precisely with the higher harmonics.

With higher harmonics can we check the techniques that are important and correct for the predictions. e.g. which progression key should we use ,1 tropical day = 1 tropical year or 1 sidereal day = 1 sidereal year ? Which keys we have to use, we can find out with 100% clarity only with higher harmonics.
With the higher harmonics we can still discover important techniques that we did not consider before. e.g.
- transits and progressed (tertiary, minor and secondary) lunar phases -
- progression to progression (Progression and return from one person is compared to progression and return from another person.)

i think it is not a perfect analogy, but there are many similarities with doing research and having your ideas put to the test in the moment thru prediction, advice or counselling.. the feedback from others, or from making predictions is invaluable..

I am not a professional astrologer and have no clients. I have not received any feedback from astrologers other than a Hamburg school astrologer, although i have been publishing my researches for at least two years here in Skyscript. Actually, the important topics I have researched, I think.

regardless of all of what i say here linchi, i admire what you are doing and wish you much success! i was away all last week and not able to reply properly to you post to me last week.. thanks for your ongoing posts and sharing with us here at skyscript... james

I also thank you, James. I think I wouldn't have posted so much of my researches here in Skyscript if you and Therese weren't here.

Linchi wrote:

I also thank you, James. I think I wouldn't have posted so much of my researches here in Skyscript if you and Therese weren't here.

Linchi, please continue to post the results of your research here. I'm happy that my appreciation of our work inspires you to continue posting, but I'm very unhappy that the restrictions of my age, time and energy (and now medical condition) don't allow me to investigate your methods further. I'm also sorry that (apparently) those who are now called Uranian astrologers are not paying more attention to your work.

I'm printing in hard copy your smaller studies and collecting your planetary pictures for events and diseases in a notebook to see if there is any way these planets might be emphasized with more standard techniques. But again, time and age restrict what I can do. I wish there was a magic clock that would set my age back to age 30 or so because then my study of astrology would be entirely different than when my studies began with modern tropical astrology in the 1960s.

For me now astrology is a vast unexplored expanse to be investigated. But except for small efforts here and there, I have to leave that investigation to others. I will say that from the scientific point of view replication of any study is necessary in order to "prove" results, and we are still very far away from being able to provide data for replication of studies. The only research that has had attempts at professional checkng and replication was done by the Gauquelins in the last century.

Thank you, Therese.

Therese Hamilton wrote:I'm also sorry that (apparently) those who are now called Uranian astrologers are not paying more attention to your work.

Because it is a great sin for them to switch from tropical to sidereal zodiac, I think.

For me now astrology is a vast unexplored expanse to be investigated.

Because most astrologers do not ask critical questions. As if the questions were forbidden.

I hope, that when we are going to study astrology again in the next life, we will choose the right astrological school so that we do not waste so much time.

Linchi wrote:

Because it is a great sin for them [Uranian astrologers] to switch from tropical to sidereal zodiac, I think.

Oh, I had forgotten that Uranian astrologers use the tropical zodiac.

I hope, that when we are going to study astrology again in the next life, we will choose the right astrological school so that we do not waste so much time.

Actually, I don't plan to return. I have a deal with Mother Kali (and with my inner Guru's approval) that I will stay here on earth until such time as I don't have to return and can continue my life on the astral. So I accept whatever infirmities and inconveniences come my way, and at the rate I'm going (spiritually) I'm afraid I might be here for another 100 years at least! We can't leave forever until there isn't even a single small earth desire remaining. (India's Yoga philosophy as described in the Bhagavad Gita.)

Therese Hamilton wrote:Actually, I don't plan to return.

I want to keep coming back to help my loved ones until they are all enlightened.

(Mahayana : The Bodhisattva postpones his enlightenment until all other beings before him have attained enlightenment )

Linchi wrote:

I want to keep coming back to help my loved ones until they are all enlightened.

Yes, the highest way. I greatly admire those who serve their fellow beings and wish to see them enlightened. But I'm not suited to physical life as an HSP (highly sensitive person). I don't have the physical or mental strength to survive well in the physical. I admire anyone who lives well in the physical and leads a productive life of service. Truly I'm sad that I can't be one of those people.