Skyscript Astrology Forum

Dear Astrologers,

by interpreting Virginia Woolf's horoscope following questions came up:

1. Are there any good books that comprehensively explain the assignment of family relatives using derivative houses? Can anyone recommend a book?

2. As a child Virginia was sexually abused by one or both of her older half brothers. Both brothers are from her mother's first marriage.
To which house are both half brothers assigned in Virginia's horoscope?
Or if a distinction can be made, to which house is the younger half brother and which house the older half brother assigned in Virginia's horoscope?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

brothers and sisters are usually assigned to 3rd house... i have read older brother sometimes as 11th house... so maybe older 11th and younger 3rd.... mars is significator for brothers and mercury also has a connection to siblings.. saturn could represent the older brother as well.. sorry i can't be of more help.. book recommendation? deb houldings book on houses might be helpful for this..

Virginia Woolf (1882-1941) was the daughter of Leslie Stephen (1832-1904) and his second wife Julia Prinsep Jackson (1846-1895).

She had three siblings, Vanessa Stephen (1879-1961), Thoby Stephen (1880-1906), and Adrian Stephen (1883-1948).

There were also half-sister Laura Makepeace Stephen (1870-1945) from her father's first marriage.

And half-siblings George Herbert Duckworth (1868-1934), Stella Duckworth (1869-1897), and Gerald Duckworth (1870-1937) from her mother's first marriage.

So Virginia Wolf had a total of 7 siblings. Which can be divided into three groups in relation to their parents.

I had thought of three possibilities:

1. If there is no possibility to differentiate at least between these three groups, then probably no other possibility will remain than to assign all 7 siblings to house three and its ruler.
This is simple, but not very informative.

2. If there is a possibility to differentiate at least between the three sibling groups mentioned before, then what is the house assignment?

Could the father's child from his first marriage perhaps be represented by house 8.
The 5th house (children) of house 4 (father)?

Could the mother's children from her first marriage perhaps be represented by house 2.
The 5th house (children) of house 10 (mother)?

3. A house can be assigned to every single sibling. Which houses would these be?

The procedure could be the same as in point 2, but only for the first sibling in the birth order and the siblings born after that are assigned the subsequent houses.

Thus H8 for the sibling of the father from the first marriage.

And H2 for the oldest sibling of the mother from the first marriage, H3 for the next born and H4 for the youngest sibling.

Hello Chris,
Here is how I would look at it

"She had three siblings, Vanessa Stephen (1879-1961), Thoby Stephen (1880-1906), and Adrian Stephen (1883-1948)."

--Siblings = 3rd house = Vanessa, Thoby and Adrian
-- to differentiate them separately
the oldest one is 3rd house. = Vanessa
the next in age is 5th = Thoby
the next in age is 7th = Adrian

"There were also half-sister Laura Makepeace Stephen (1870-1945) from her father's first marriage."

-- child of your father (5th House from the 4th) = 8th House Laura

"And half-siblings George Herbert Duckworth (1868-1934), Stella Duckworth (1869-1897), and Gerald Duckworth (1870-1937) from her mother's first marriage."

-- children of your mother (5th House from the 10th) = 2nd House George, Stella, Gerald
-- and to differentiate them = George 2nd House, Stella 4th House, Gerald 6th House

There is also
-- 1st marriage of your mother = 4th House (7th from the 10th) = Your father if you are from this marriage
-- 2nd marriage of your mother = 6th House (9th from the 10th) = Your stepfather

-- 1st marriage of your father = 10th House (7th from the 4th) = Your mother if you are from this marriage
-- 2nd marriage of your father = 12th House (9th from the 4th) = Your stepmother

"Nothing has really happened until it has been described" Virginia Woolf

Blessings,
Ouranos

derivative houses are fun... in fact, i think it might be an indian astrology specialty and dang, but they assign the father to the 9th!

but alas, when we have to look out, it is hard to look in... an alternative approach might be to consider the drama from the chart itself and not get stuck on astrology rituals over how houses are a reflection of everything 'on the outside' and instead think about how the drama or psychology might be contained in the person and chart itself... something to ponder..

Hello Quranos,

many, many thanks for the detailed answer to my questions! Which is logically comprehensible and makes sense.

I came to my solution suggestion shown above (under point 3), because I vaguely remembered to have read in a book once, if a house or the ruler of a house is already assigned as a significator, then the next following house and its ruler is responsible. It could have been "The Horory Textbook" by John Frawley.

Do you perhaps know what this rule refers to?

Chris

On the website theastrologydictionary.com they say

"The earliest list of significations for using derivative houses appears in the work of the 2nd century astrologer Vettius Valens, although it appears to based on an earlier work attributed to Asclepius."

"Derivative houses can also be done from specific planets, so that the planet becomes an alternative Ascendant in the chart. This approach has been used in a few different traditions of astrology."
The best example is a Solar Chart used by modern writers of horoscope columns.

"In India astrologers will commonly calculate an alternative set of whole sign houses from the sign of the Moon, which is known as the Chandra Lagna, which means “Moon Ascendant???.

So Family does not seem to be a 'One Size Fits All'. How easy if they would all be packed in the 4th House!

Chris Meyer wrote:

1. Are there any good books that comprehensively explain the assignment of family relatives using derivative houses? Can anyone recommend a book?

There's a wonderful reference book published in 1984 that includes exhaustive lists of derivative houses. The Horary Reference Book by Anne Ungar and Lillian Huber (ACS Publications, San Diego, CA). Topics are divided alphabetically by subject, house rulership, houses and planets. There is an introductory section on horary basics, and a helpful section on controversial areas.

In this book there are almost three pages for topics related to stepsiblings. Stepsibling (Mother's stepchild) is listed as 8th house (5th from Mother's spouse-4th). This book discusses the horary controversy about which houses belong to which parents, 4th or 10th? The authors conclude:

"...the traditional horary rulership is indeed valid. The planetary ruler of the 10th house is the significator for the mother and the planetary ruler for the 4th house is the father." (p. 23)

The bibliography includes probably every horary book in print at the time (1984). But as this book was written and published before the Classical revival in astrology, there is no mention of William Lilly or John Frawley. Both authors should probably be checked for houses assigned to the parents.

Checking on Amazon this book is only a few dollars for used copies, but new copies are expensive.

1. I would not personally consider this particular case, since astrodatabank's source notes are "from memory" and are also conflicting.

2. In my view 3rd house rules siblings, but only if they are identified as such. If she did not recognize them as siblings (perhaps because of their half brother status) it does not apply. In the same way I regard 9th as representing parents, since they are recognized as teachers and educators from the person's point of view (unless the person has broken with them).