Skyscript Astrology Forum

I am requesting help from my German colleagues.

Below is an article from Alfred Witte and I am not sure if the Google translation provides the exact meaning of what he said.
Can you tell me how you understand this text?

Article 43 The lunar horoscope of one day
on https://astrax.de/Alfred-Witte-Artikel.html

Appreciate your help,
Ouranos

Hi Ouranos,

I have read this article and I must honestly admit that nearly all of the articles that Witte published are all Greek to me (though my native language is German!).
Witte used to apply a special technical mode of expression that is beyond my comprehension. I‘m really sorry that I myself can not provide help.

I assume that Michael Feist (https://witte-verlag.com/) or Karsten F. Kröncke (https://astrax.de) are capable of interpreting this article of Witte so that wie can comprehend astrologically what Witte wanted to express.

Today I sent an email to Karsten requesting help. But I didn‘t get an answer yet.

Best wishes
Zachariel

Just one (formal) thing I have to add:
I have the book „Der Mensch - eine Empfangsstation kosmischer Suggestionen“ in my possession, that presents a collection of all the writings of Witte.
There on Page 274 we can find this article („Das Lunarhoroskop eines Tages“).
And in the penultimate sentence there seems to be a typing error in this article (corrected in my book) included.

„Node“ (Node symbol in article) seems to be a typing error.
In my (book)version the node is replaced by „A“ (Ascendent).

Thank you Zachariel for your reply.

It is an euphemism, to say the least, that the German language of Witte is difficult for German people. And Google is not the best companion to solve this issue!
Essentially, I am trying to see how Witte was drawing a Lunar Horoscope for one day as per the title of his article. Something that would resemble a diurnal ???
I have ordered Rules for Planetary Pictures from Michael Feist but I do not want to bother him with my questions knowing that he has a busy schedule.
Hey Michael! I have hacked your book 'Der Mensch' on the web! And here are my questions.

Anyway, if you hear from Karsten, please let me know.

Appreciate your help! Keep up the great work!
Ouranos

Hi Ouranos,

ist was not until I got acquainted with linchi‘s Microastrology that I dealt with lunar returns a lot. Before that I couldn‘t really figure out the benefit of lunars in astrology.

In the meantime Karsten has sent me his answer upon my request yesterday. Karsten is a very nice and supportive guy, he suffered a severe stroke in August 2014, resulting that he is on one eye blind and the right side of his body is completely paralyzed. So I don’t want to stress him too much.

As you might know Karsten is the last personal student of Hermann Lefeldt, author of „lexicon for planetary pictures“, published 1957 (coauthor: Ilse Schnitzler). And Lefeldt has also published an important textbook about the houses (and meaning of planets /TNPs in the houses) of Hamburg school of Astrology.

Karsten writes that Hermann Sporner‘s comment on Witte‘s article No. 43 (Das Lunarhoroskop des Tages) is kind of sparse. And as far as Karsten knows neither Ludwig Rudolph nor Friedrich Sieggrün nor Hermann Lefeldt (nor Karsten himself) had ever discussed article No. 43.

Karsten then continues in defining solar arc.
He then focus on the issue „activation“ (ger.: „Auslösung“) and cites the third paragraph of Witte‘s article literally.

Karsten then introduces as an example his visit to the specialist on September 28, 2021, 08:00 UTC.

The following parts of text of the email refer to the astrological (main-)software „WSL“ (=Witte-Sieggrün-Lefeldt), Karsten analyzes here astrologically the planetary pictures that depict the event „visit to the specialist/medical doctor“.

For me it‘s quite easy to follow Karsten because I am sufficiently familiar with WSL, the main software used by the students of the Freiburg section of Hamburg School of Astrology. But for those who don‘t work with WSL I guess comprehension of Karsten‘s astrological example is beyond reach.

Karsten does not explicitly name the term „Lunar Horoscope“, he refers to a special technique (without naming it), the so called „Magical Square“ (ger.: „Magisches Quadrat“). With WSL one can easily apply this special astrological technique. The purpose of this technique is to derive the event-related planetary pictures out of the multitude of the existing planetary pictures.

One thing we have to bear in mind. The adherents of the Freiburg section of (and also the adherents of the Hamburg section of) Hamburg School of Astrology strictly use the tropical zodiac.

Sometimes I experience myself as kind of „schizophrenic“ in switching between the world of WSL (conventional tropical Uranian Astrology) and the beauty of the plain and straightforward (and also efficient!) realm of Microastrology.

Since I am not working as a consulting astrologer I can bear this schizophrenic situation although it does not comfort me at all. I can not assert that working with WSL provide wrong results. No, that‘s not the case.

So I have to live further on with these seeming discrepances, being an „astrological heretic“ using and exploring both methods.

Best wishes!

Zachariel

That is great information Zachariel!
You can elaborate on the Magic Square if you want.
I was first introduced to MP by an old German lady some 40 years ago and am familiar with the Dial Tool.
I also feel like an 'heretic' in astrology, switching from Sidereal to Tropical, wherever I find the truth. And I am a self-learned astrologer. (Aries on the cusp of the 9th).
The only problem is finding the right program who will do what I am looking for. Right now, I am using Solar Fire with Reports to generate the important MP I am looking for.

Question for you Zachariel.
- How do you reconcile the SUMs (based on the AR) and the HOUSES in sidereal?
- Do you look at the Christmas Solstice (0 Cap) for mundane events?

Appreciate your input on the Uranian system.

P.S. Is it true that there are 2 schools of thoughts in Germany regarding Witte and his followers?

Thank you,
Ouranos

First of all I have to apologize for my lousy english language skills. Lack of practice and study…

With regard to the so called „Magical Square“ (I don‘t know where this term originates) it‘s a pity that the astrological internet forum „Astrologie WSL Forum“ (https://astrologiewslforum.astrax.de) is only available in German language. Karsten has founded this remarkable forum. There you can find tons of examples of this special technique.

But there is an absolute precondition if you want to reproduce this technique by yourself: you need to have this special astrological software WSL, I have talked about in my former posting, installed on your PC (https://www.astrax.de/astroSoftware.html). If you scroll a little bit down (see the internet-link in brackets) to the header „WSL“ there you get to this yellow coloured text passage (description of the features of WSL). There you can find Download „Anleitung“, pdf-Datei, 0,1 MB (in red letters). Maybe Google can help to translate this short manual of WSL so that you can get at least an impression what this software can offer.

But for non German-speaking astrologers I won‘t recommend to buy WSL at all, because there is not much of a help menu available, and if there is help provided then only in German language. So, dealing with this software even for German native speakers can be rather inconveniant.

Here I will try to summarize how this „Magical Square“ works.

The WSL software provides a linear graphics composed of four levels from bottom to top: R(adix), P(rogressive), S(olar arc), T(ransit). The horizontal line ranges from 0 degrees to 22,5 degrees (harmonic 16).

Now analyzing a special event, e.g. marriage or any other event that ocurred the task now is to derive the relevant planetary pictures out of the vast amount of existing planetary pictures. Now we need to start somewhere. One good idea is to start with the transit sun (orb is approx. 1 degree). Inspecting what lies beneath the transit sun (across all these four levels T, S, P, R), I mean what planets and transneptunians are positioned there we take their position into account (degree) and we look after planets/transneptunians positioned (again across all four levels) that sum up to 0 degree / 22,5 degree (including the orb). The progressive MC and the progressive AS we must also take into account as „starters“ not only the transit sun.
I must say that this technique indeed performs remarkably well analyzing events in retrospect. It‘s really amazing, I have seen so many examples where I was completely stunned about how well this technique performes. There are many examples in „Astrologie WSL Forum“ that substantiate my statement.

But sadly until the present day this technique „Magical Square“ does not at all sufficiently perform well when someone tries to make an astrological forecast, when someone tries to identify the relevant planetary pictures for future events. I suspect that one reason for this shortcoming is connected with problems in defining what planets/transneptunians are relevant at the starting points (transit sun, progressive MC, progressive AS). Besides very often we can not know at what location an event will take place. Choosing the wrong geographical coordinates will spoil the whole forecast.

Now to your first question.
I‘m sorry that I am not quite sure what you mean with „SUMs“. Please clarify.

Second question: Yes I have used 0 Cap for mundane events but recently not. I now prefer the techniques that linchi introduced with his version of Microastrology (solar returns, lunar returns, secundary / tertiary progression, transit moon phase).

Your P.S.question:
Yes, in my own subjective perception there are (at least) two competing sections of Uranian Astrology situated in Germany which are more coexisting than cooperating. The leader/speaker of the Hamburg section is Michael Feist, the leader of the Freiburg/Breisgau section is Karsten F(erdinand) Kröncke, who was born in Hamburg in 1943. I owe Karsten a debt of gratitude for his kindness, patience and generosity teaching me and explaining me complicated issues in connection with Hamburg School of Astrology.

But both men, Michael Feist and Karsten F. Kröncke have achieved a great deal for the good of Uranian Astrology. They both deserve to be honored by all of the students of Hamburg School of Astrology/Uranian Astrology. For me personally they are both Guardians and Protectors of the teachings of Witte, Sieggrün and Lefeldt.
There is another section of Hamburg School of Astrology/Uranian Astrology still existing which was founded by Ruth Brummund. But I think this section is not that influential as the other two mentioned, at least not in German speaking countries.

Zachariel

Thank you Zachariel.
Will have a look at the Forum - I can always Google translate to read the posts.
Have also translated some articles from astrax.de to get a sense of what Uranian discussions look like.

As for my first question.
A.Witte told his disciples: "The Sum of two planets (a+b) is a Sensitive Point of the Aries Axis."
Whatever that means but what I understand is the involvement of the AR point in the formula.

It is rare to find a system in Astrology that is so unique and original than the Uranian system.
Most traditional authors draw from the same source as it seems. You find Ma'shalla who took it from someone else and Junctin de Florence who collected the works of 500 authors. Even Lilly took it somewhere and I think that he may have been commissioned by the Rosicrucians to reveal some hidden knowledge. Where is that all coming from? After that, you cite one author and to be honest, you would have to cite an entire army of astrologers who have repeated the same thing over the centuries. Even Indian astrology have a thousand ways to look at a chart but the chronology of their tradition is a big hodge-podge.

Blessings!
Ouranos

I have found interesting articles on https://www.astrax.de/astroSoftware.html
One of them by Karsten 'KEN2007_04GluckLebenJupiter.pdf' where he explains how he reads a chart in time.
He starts by reading the Natal of Konrad Adenauer with the 22.5 Wheel.
To see if he will be re-elected, he then switches to the 45 Wheel with the pointer on the MC.
Why? Why not stay in the 22.5 or even go the 90 Wheel? Or go to higher octaves like Linchi does?
There must be a rationale behind this. I would expect something like - OK in the 22.5 you read the 'Inner Self' , in the 45 something else and so on.
I have had in my life, examples where the 22.5, 45 and 90 were all colliding on the same point. Easy to read, you know what to focus on. It is obvious.
But why, if something doesn't show up on the lower wheels does it suddenly become important if you find it in the 128 Harmonic?
I don't know if you have sorted this out.

I might consider buying WSL. After all, once you know what you get with the buttons or the menus, the astrological symbols are universal.
Is Sidereal integrated in the software*?

Hi Ouranos,

Ouranos wrote:Why? Why not stay in the 22.5 or even go the 90 Wheel? Or go to higher octaves like Linchi does?

Because firstly Karsten will never in his life not use my harmonics, secondly I published my harmonics in 2015, that is after Karsten's article.

There must be a rationale behind this. I would expect something like - OK in the 22.5 you read the 'Inner Self' , in the 45 something else and so on.

In my opinion, you can't assign the harmonics to something like inner self or outer world etc. on a whim. The planetary pictures no matter in which harmonic show the events and characteristics of the horoscope owner.

I have had in my life, examples where the 22.5, 45 and 90 were all colliding on the same point. Easy to read, you know what to focus on. It is obvious.
But why, if something doesn't show up on the lower wheels does it suddenly become important if you find it in the 128 Harmonic?
I don't know if you have sorted this out.

First, a harmonic is not more important than other harmonics and second, suddenly is it not, because I need to examine all the harmonics (16,32,64,..... ). No matter in which harmonics, the planetary pictures are important.

Ouranos wrote:
Why? Why not stay in the 22.5 or even go the 90 Wheel? Or go to higher octaves like Linchi does?

Because firstly Karsten will never in his life not use my harmonics, secondly I published my harmonics in 2015, that is after Karsten's article.

I am not questioning the ownership or use of specific harmonics.
You share something with Karsten
He looks at other Harmonics and you do the same.
This is the sense of my question.

Quote:
There must be a rationale behind this. I would expect something like - OK in the 22.5 you read the 'Inner Self' , in the 45 something else and so on.

In my opinion, you can't assign the harmonics to something like inner self or outer world etc. on a whim. The planetary pictures no matter in which harmonic show the events and characteristics of the horoscope owner.

OK I understand this. If you start with a blank like no specific question is being asked and you just want to analyze the chart.
Correct me if I am wrong but you are telling me that you will focus on any Harmonics on Planetary Pictures falling within a specific orb? Is that what you are saying?

Otherwise, like in Karsten's article he was looking at the re-election of a political man and that's why he was investigating the MC.
When he builds his grid with Radix, Solar Arc, Progressed and Transits, he uses a 1 degree orb (which seems a lot). I have seen others using 20 min and I know you go with 10 minutes on smaller Harmonics and lower for the higher ones. I tend to lean on your side as I have seen pictures not responding on more loose orbs. Not sure if the Moon would enter in a different category because of its faster motion.

Something else that just popped up in reading Witte. He says that the Sun=day Moon=hour and the MC=minute.
My own experience when you look at a specific Planetary Picture and you want to know when it will happen during a specific day. I take the MC/any planet and AC/any planet and move it along the Planetary Picture in question with an emphasis on the planet/MC or AC that is part of the picture.
Say for example, you have the SUt conjunct VEn, I will pay special attention to SUt/MCt (or ACt) and VEn/MCt. I prefer MC over AC for the 'I" and 'Success" meaning. And these guys move at an average of 7 degrees of longitude during 1 hour

Appreciate your feedback,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:OK I understand this. If you start with a blank like no specific question is being asked and you just want to analyze the chart.
Correct me if I am wrong but you are telling me that you will focus on any Harmonics on Planetary Pictures falling within a specific orb? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, it is correct.

Otherwise, like in Karsten's article he was looking at the re-election of a political man and that's why he was investigating the MC.
When he builds his grid with Radix, Solar Arc, Progressed and Transits, he uses a 1 degree orb (which seems a lot). I have seen others using 20 min and I know you go with 10 minutes on smaller Harmonics and lower for the higher ones. I tend to lean on your side as I have seen pictures not responding on more loose orbs. Not sure if the Moon would enter in a different category because of its faster motion.

I have to clarify again that my system and Hamburg school are different. I have different working method than Hamburg School. In my opinion, if you work with tropical zodiac, you have to take bigger orb, because tropical positions of planets will be much different from sidereal positions. I would not consider the moon position in tropical zodiac. I would ignore it, because lunar position between tropical and sidereal becomes too wide. But in sidereal zodiac I consider it like all other planets, depending on the correctness of the birth time.

Something else that just popped up in reading Witte. He says that the Sun=day Moon=hour and the MC=minute.

For the smaller harmonics like harmonic 16, you can think of it like this. In higher harmonics, however, this assumption will not be correct. In higher harmonics only the sun is day, hour, minute and second.

My own experience when you look at a specific Planetary Picture and you want to know when it will happen during a specific day. I take the MC/any planet and AC/any planet and move it along the Planetary Picture in question with an emphasis on the planet/MC or AC that is part of the picture.
Say for example, you have the SUt conjunct VEn, I will pay special attention to SUt/MCt (or ACt) and VEn/MCt. I prefer MC over AC for the 'I" and 'Success" meaning. And these guys move at an average of 7 minutes of longitude during 1 hour

If you would give an example, we can check it.