Skyscript Astrology Forum

Thank you Martin,

Bezza cites Ptolemy here...

"In the first place, we must give the rulership of the times in each prorogation to the star that is actually upon the prorogatory degree or in
aspect to it, or, if this condition does not exist, to the one that most nearly
precedes, until we come to another which is in aspect with the next
following degree in the order of the signs; then to this as far as the next
following, and so on; and the planets which govern the terms are to be
given a part of the rulership. And again we must assign years to the
degrees of the intervals: in the prorogation from the horoscope a number
equal to the times of ascension in the latitude concerned; in the
prorogation from mid- heaven, as many as the times of the culminations ;
and in the prorogations from all the others, in proportion to or in
accordance with the nearness of the risings, or settings, or culminations, to the angles, as we explained in the discussion of the length of life" (Tetrabiblos, Book IV, last chapter)

Do we understand here prorogations as Profections?

And he goes on to say...
"Commenting on the last chapter of the last Book of Ptolemy, Jerome Cardan points out that, in seeking to elucidate future times, it is necessary to take as a basis an orderly and uniform unfolding; he also says that Ptolemy names three.
For the first, that which is done by age, the order followed is that of the spheres, from the Moon to Saturn. For the second, which many today call Primary Direction, we follow the order of the Terms of the planets. Finally, for the third, which is that of the "perfections", we follow the order of the twelve signs starting from the one that rises."

Valens in Chapter 4 says...
"The same transmissions are indicated every 12 years. They will, however, not have the same causative influence, but different." He is talking about the Profections here and he describes at length the 'distribution' of planets reaching places occupied by planets.
Problem arises when he is talking about the time of the year when the profections will be active, for he gives not one but several timing methods.
Bezza gives an orb of +/- 1 month which represents a 3 month period.

Danièle Jay in an article 'Ascendant et MC profectés' uses the chart of Louis XIV (5 septembre 1638, St-Germain-en-Laye 78, 11h 09mn (11h 1mn de U.T.) with Scorpio rising 14d 43
She describes the crowning of Louis XIV when the Profected ASC March 10th, 1661 near Fortuna was partile sextile to his natal Moon at 5°37’ Leo and the Profected MC at 6 Can 52 was in trine to the SR Saturn (7°55’Scorpio) while being directed to Mercury ruler of MC and conjunct Regulus.

A question remains for me here. When you have a planet in the middle of a sign and when the Profected year begins, do you start to count
1) from 0 degree of the sign
2) from 15 degree where the planet is
3) from the beginning of the House it is in which may be + or - 0 degree of that sign.

Thank you,
Ouranos

Do we understand here prorogations as Profections?

And he goes on to say...
"Commenting on the last chapter of the last Book of Ptolemy, Jerome Cardan points out that, in seeking to elucidate future times, it is necessary to take as a basis an orderly and uniform unfolding; he also says that Ptolemy names three.
For the first, that which is done by age, the order followed is that of the spheres, from the Moon to Saturn. For the second, which many today call Primary Direction, we follow the order of the Terms of the planets. Finally, for the third, which is that of the "perfections", we follow the order of the twelve signs starting from the one that rises."

A question remains for me here. When you have a planet in the middle of a sign and when the Profected year begins, do you start to count
1) from 0 degree of the sign
2) from 15 degree where the planet is
3) from the beginning of the House it is in which may be + or - 0 degree of that sign.

Is that a general 'you' or do you mean me specifically? I can't answer absolutely for either Valens or Bezza (and even less for Jay), but I profect by 30-degree increments, so if the natal ascendant is 12 degrees of a sign, the profected ascendant on the birthday will also be 12 degrees of whatever sign it has reached. (I treat the ruler of that sign as the ruler of the entire year, even after the continuously profected ascendant has changed signs.) If there is a planet in the sign of the year I will pay attention to it, especially if the profected ascendant is still applying to it.

Ouranos wrote:Very confusing or maybe there is something I don't understand but Bezza seems very convincing with the example he gives in his article.

But... "The cycle of perfections also runs through the spaces of the year." And instead of adding a flat 30 degrees, Bezza uses 2 hours of time from the RA... 'We will take the two diurnal temporal hours of the degree of the horoscope and add them to the oblique ascension of the horoscope."

Keeping in mind that he uses Placidus, the result will put the Profected ASC on the cusp of the following House.