Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hello, thank you for the wonderful forum.
Forgive me, I'm Chinese and English is my third language.

I am a student of Hellenistic astrology.
Sorry, I don't follow modern astrology, I strongly prefer traditional rulers, and Whole Sign house, as that is what my life events and my personality resonate with.

https://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/05 ... the-chart/
I'm currently listening to this broadcast of Mr. Chris Brennon on Hellenistic.

I have a chart that is rather um.. weird. I want to find the Lord of Nativity (kurios) in my chart, but I got confuse. I was able to find the Predominator (epikratetor), and Master of the Nativity (oikodespotes). But when I get to (kurios), I get lost. I don't know how to find it.

I don't know which sub is appropriate to ask, I can link the image to my chart and can anyone help me find the (kurious)?

Thank you so so much!

Kurios can be seen as 'the captain of the ship' in a chart or spiritual guides who help and guide you on your path.
More info on the site of Matthew Lawrence Kenney
https://www.ancientastrology.org/articl ... ogy-part-1

The calculation is found in the free software Planetdance
Horoscope > Classical > Ed Greek Horoscope

Best to you,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:The calculation is found in the free software Planetdance
Horoscope > Classical > Ed Greek Horoscope

Thank you Sir, I actually have this software, I just didn't know how to find this function, so thank you so much for show me then function.

That software said my Lord of Nativity (Kurios) is my domicile Mars.

Which make alot of sense because in my chart, Mars is the most powerful planet.
Mars is in his own sign rulership, and it his own house below the horizon.

Both my Sun degrees and my Mercury degrees are in Mars bound, so it operate under Mars.

I have Sun Trine Mars. Mercury Trine Mars. So my (self) Sun and my (mind) Mercury are listening to my Mars voice, and do what Mars wants.

I also have Sun Trine Saturn, Mercury trine Saturn. BUT Mars have the upper hand here since my Saturn is in my Mars sign and in Mars house.

My Moon is in Venus degrees. BUT my Venus degrees is in Mars bound. So Mars has the upper hand again.
And my Mars win Venus by both by sign and by houses.

Mars is the only planet in my chart that in it domicile/rulership sign. My Midheaven is also rule by Mars.

The thing is I'm a daychart. So Mars is the Out of Sect greatest malefic here, as Mars is the planet that cause me the most trouble.
Saturn is my benefic (daychart), BUT my Saturn is in Mars sign and in Mars house below the horizon, so I'm sure this Saturn is pretty hostile.

I'm 38, that Mars is strong, all my life I feel Mars the most, my personality traits, my drive, actions, how aggressive and determine I am to go get what I want in my life.
BUT Mars is my greatest malefic though, and is the Kurios of my chart, isn't this sound kindda worrisome?

Both my Sun degrees and my Mercury degrees are in Mars bound, so it operate under Mars.

It would be more appropriate to say that "Mars is responsible to bring the ship to the destination set by Oikodespotes (Domicile Master)." as Kurios is referred as the executor. And whatever planet is the Oikodespotes in your chart.
For example, if Mercury is the domicile master with Mars as Kurios, I would hire you as a Uber driver.
Out of Sect is just one element in the overall picture.


Kurios also called Lord of the nativity is the executor of the agenda that Oikodespotes, the domicile master holds. He is the one responsible to bring the ship to the destination set by Oikodespotes. (Hephaistios of Thebes, Apotelesmatika, Chap II)

As a nautical metaphor, he describes it...
The ship itself = the natives life = predominator.
The first and second Trigon (triplicity) lords of the predominator = the winds that carry the ship to its destiny. The third trigon (triplicity) lord is the oars that move the ship.

Oikodespotes (Domicile Master) of the chart = ship owner = the one who sets the agenda or destiny for the native under the restriction set by the bound ruler of the pre-dominator.

Kurios (Lord of the nativity) = Captain of the ship = Executor = the one who is responsible to bring the ship to the destination set by Oikodespotes (Domicile Master).

Ascendant sign = helm of the ship = physical life.
Domicile Lord of the Ascendant = Helmsman = the First Officer of the ship.

Lot of Fortune = everything that befalls the native through not of his own doing.

Domicile Lord of the Lot of Fortune = man on the prow of the ship = Second Officer who is on the look out for the things/events that are going to befall the native.

It is important that the Lord of Lot of Fortune be able to communicate with the Domicile Master or Ascendant (Helmsman) or Lord of the nativity (Kurios)
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The term Kyrios (Kurios) is the equivalent to the English term mister, master and sir. For example, the English term Mr. Smith is translated to "κ????ιος Σμίθ" (kyrios Smith) in Greek.
It also appears 700 times in the New Testament, usually referring to Jesus, the designation intended to assign to Jesus the Old Testament attributes of God. In Corinthians 3:17-18 "Now the Lord is the Spirit." (Wikipedia)

To Sir Ouranos,

Sir, this is what I don't get though. I not sure if I 100% agreed with the software calculation of my Predominator.

Ascendant mark my 1st house, BUT I have ZERO planet in there.

My Sun is in 9th house with my Mercury, Sun in 9th is know to be in it Joy in that house.

My Moon is in 12th.

However the Planetdance, as my predominator as my Ascendant. How so? I have ZERO planet in 1st house. Beside the Asc marked my 1st house ruler.

I thought my predominator would be my Sun in 9th, as I am a Daychart, so the Sun is the candidate here. And he it his Joy house in 9th house.

So why it not my Sun but the Asc? which I have ZERO planet in that sign.

Well then my chart is pretty bad. My Lot of Fortune is Venus, and my Venus in 8th Idle house.

My Lot of Spirit is Masr. My Lot of Victory is also Mars. My Midheaven is also Mars.

I also read something about Mitigation. Mars is the Out of Sect greatest malefic in my chart. But Mars in his own sign, and in his own house below the horizon, so he bubbling with energy, and he the Kurios drive the ship too. So I hope he happy and calm the heck down, as he the greatest malefic in my chart.

In the section Ed Greek Horoscope, under Menu (bottom left) > Help you find this below...

Predominator: this is either the Sun, Moon, Ascendant or MC. The predominator is identified by a complex series of rules that are based on sect and house placement. Basically, the sect light is chosen as predominator unless it falls in a cadent house. In this case the alternative sect light is chosen unless it too falls in a cadent house.

If both lights are in the ninth whole sign house, the Ascendant is preferred as predominator, since both aspect the ascendant. If the Sun and Moon are both in the other three cadent houses, the MC is preferred.

If the Sun or Moon are in their fall, they cannot be counted as predominator. The Sun's fall position is Libra; the Moon's fall position is Scorpio.

Users may choose to identify the predominator using either Porphyry house cusps or whole sign house cusps. Users can also opt to use Pancharios cusps. In this case, any planet falling within 15% of the next house cusp, will be counted as if in the subsequent house. This is a dynamic calculation, so the distance used for the calculation will vary according to the size of the house in ecliptic degrees. This setting is chosen in the Calculations Options menu. The change of cusps will not be shown on the wheel.

This seems to be a variant of Porphyry that was advocated by Pancharios in around 200CE.(See the following for more information:http://radixpro.com/project-houses/hous ... ancharios/)
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As a philosophical approach on Benefic vs Malefic.
Ancient societies valued more the collective vs the individual. Everything that was not 'fitting in the collective' was seen as an 'outsider'. So Malefic refers to something that is 'different' or more 'individualistic'.
Spiritual teachers from all religions say that the process of evolution of humankind is going in the direction of 'individuation' or 'consciousness' or 'difference.'
Jung said that 'The collective unconscious and consciousness are identical. The collective unconscious is made known to consciousness through symbols. Consciousness and the collective unconscious are in unending conflict.'
Many societies today have a strong 'collective unconsciousness' which is in conflict with the 'personal consciousness' of each individual. But we have no choice, our soul is asking us to get more personal and individualized. This is where the 'malefic' planets come into play. Since they find no comfort zone in the chart, you need to express them knowing that they will bring a clash with people around you. But you need to do so 'in consciousness' as an offering to the Universe. Jesus is the best example.
And if you think that millions of people will disagree with you is one side of the flip coin. For one person, one individual can change the world and the life of millions around him. Like Nelson Mandela.

Sir,

My Sun in 9th house, so that a cadent house. My Moon in 12th house that another cadent house.
Both my Sun and Moon are not in its fall, it in neutral sign.

I thought my Sun in 9th in where the Sun has it Joy, and I'm a daychart, that would make my Sun a candidate.

I did use the Ed Greek Horoscope section, and it said my Ascendant is the Predominator, I just want to know WHY, that's all.


https://i.postimg.cc/C1H1vHNY/Chart-Traditional.png
This is my chart wheel. I just don't know why my Sun in 9th is not the predominator, I'm a daychart though.

If the Sun and Moon are both in the other three cadent houses, the MC is preferred. -------- What do you mean by this Sir, that Sun and Moon are in the same sign? Because I don't see how 2 planets (Sun and Moon) can end up in all 3 cadent houses.

The Moon rule my Ascendant, that Moon is in a Mercury sign and in 12th (bad house).
My Sun, I'm a daychart, and that Sun is in 9th house of it Joy.

I'm having a hard time see how can my Asc alone (EMPTY 1st) house can be the Predominator here.

[ Determination of the Predominator of a chart:
The predominator of a chart is the luminary of time (sun by day or moon by night) provided it is not cadent.

If in a day chart the sun is cadent, we take then moon as predominator.
If in a night chart the moon is cadent, we take the sun as predominator.

If both luminaries are cadent, the ascendant becomes the predominator.
Some astrologers also said that if the domicile ruler of the ascendant is also cadent, then we should use the Lot of Fortune. ]

The ruler of my Ascendant is the Moon, and the Moon is in 12th house which is a "Cadent" house. Then can I use the Lot of Fortune then?

fromChina wrote:

This is my chart wheel. I just don't know why my Sun in 9th is not the predominator, I'm a daychart though.

From China, can you please post your full birth data as the sidereal chart will be different. Since sidereal positions were used in Hellenistic times, sign positions will tell a different story for your birth chart. I know that Chris Brennan has concluded for himself that tropical positions are effective, but that isn't the final word even though his 670 page book is an absolutely wonderful master reference for Hellenistic astrology.