Hello all,

A few weeks ago I was compelled by some content of Anthony Louises to revisit the subject of antiscia (a tool I’d largely discarded on faulty conceptual grounds towards the beginning of my studies a couple of years back). I then also happened upon an article written on true vs mean lunar nodes not long after, piquing my interest on yet another subject I’d not touched in ages. In both instances I decided to adjust course after testing out antiscia and true nodes on important charts in my database, and getting immediate results (although true node relevance was more circumstantial). Making these two switch ups in such quick succession had the combined effect of bringing very stark attention to a particular point in my own nativity and the subject(s) of this post. So after meditating first on the subject in question, but then also on whether or not I wanted to sully this forum with my own rank navel(natal?)-gazing- here’s what we’ve got:

Only a little over a month into a Venus profection year, I find myself confronted with a formerly loose\ turned nearly exact Venus NN conjunction, and its formerly averse relationship to the ascendant turned tightly conjunct (by antiscia). This placement has plagued my conscious for as long as I’ve been aware of it. It has always intuitively registered as “eminently important??? in my life, and yet I have never been able to reconcile this gut-feeling with what is indicated by venuses position in my chart when viewed through the first harmonic.

I have thus far been inclined to treat antiscia as denoting “loose conjunction??? when applicable, mostly operating on the assumption that reflections/shadows of planets can’t impart onto the parts of the chart they occupy the same significations as can their real/physically observable counterparts, and thus can only come to possess manifest potency when aspecting a real planet by conjunction. But with their being very strong arguments for antiscia being baked into the thema mundi, and then being validated in this way about my own chart- I’m mesmerized by the depth of interpretation antiscia might actually be allowing for. What the heck is going on here? Is it the holy grail or a diligent practitioners worst nightmare (re: confirmation-bias)?

Personal context of greatest pertinence (that I can think of):

I have *very* substantial money issues at all times, and have faced self-evidently karmic/fated impediments on issues relating to career initiation/advancement. This is one side of a manifestly absurd/observably “nonsensical??? polarity formed by Saturn and Venus, with Venus on the other end representing relations to women. I actually don’t know how much the two sides are supposed to be intertwined thematically in my life (if at all).

I have not had the ability to maintain a sleep schedule since I can remember (around 5 maybe younger).

I have what is functionally a stimulant dependence, which is something i find in an effort to stave off a default state of physical and cognitive lethargy.

In addition to the above, I struggle quite heavily with sex addiction, which can be extrapolated writ large to a near-constant preoccupation with socialization/interpersonal relations, and that in turn feeds into a lifelong narrative I’ve not been able to fully see manifest in my chart until now: Ravenous obsession for all things novel and pleasurable, to be experienced at any and all cost to long term fulfillment (absolutely including my health), and permitted for any reason conceivable by me capable of serving as a justification.

I think the sex and the extremely pronounced interest in/affinity for women generally stems from some sort of an interest to reconcile gender polarities in a sort of quintessentially libran way. Trying to stomp out my own biases there and reach total equilibrium. I don’t ultimately know what I’m looking for though or what I intend to achieve with that, and this despite contemplating this for the last four or five years since this really became an (apparent) fixation. My “working theory??? (and that *really* is not saying much, as it has virtually no functional utility for me whatsoever so far as I can tell) is that it’s a compulsion to bridge an unbridgeable extreme imprinted onto me by a libra rising scorpio moon+Uranus (exact) cap sun leo Saturn mother+ an intermittent relationship with my 5 pisces stellium grandmother on my moms side+ sag moon and jup cap (my favorite person now and forever). Venus in a diurnal chart representing the mother does more or less seem to check out in this instance. Again I have no idea though, I only know that these temptations seemingly get worse with time as far as severity goes, and better as far as becoming more tolerant of others (especially women in all forms) is concerned. I.e. been seeing an Aquarius 7th house moon woman lately who has made me fall in love with the last piece of the zodiac I’d hitherto meeting her was not able truly to “love??? as such. So, I do know it is unambiguously one of my primary sources of insight for my astrological awareness, but that is spoken for to a larger extent it seems by the 7th house mars Mercury reception by sign and bound.

There’s no shortage of Venusian perks that floated in on this luciferian raft from hell, ones that I have and continue to enjoy… but that is precisely the problem- it’s all way too easy, and with time I’m only ever interested in seeing how far I can take my charm, and how much I can get away with. I’m mostly interested in speaking on venuses corrupted qualities here rather than the good ones because it is ostensibly the only “good??? planet in my entire chart with a ruler (itself) not totally afflicted by the worst sort of debilities, and because I think most members of this forum will have an acute awareness of what it means when a benefic (sect as an aside perhaps) is domiciled in a chart. The relevant corruptions source from bad house, witness from a very bad planet, being out of sect, and being amplified/imbued with the cravings of an unhinged dragon. Besides its merely occupying and ruling the 8th, it is averting sect light, bound sect malefic by antiscia (along with the asc), and for the coup de gras dominating fortune almost to the degree.

So while I do certainly “enjoy??? the Venusian bounty, not all that glitters is gold, and the debilities coalesce and express themselves to me (rarely to others) as a consciously perceptible tinge of darkness undercutting any pretense of a happy/nice/good ending to anything I do or am involved with. It’s a self perpetuating and nasty kind of general sense of “denial??? befitting of a morning star venus in such a dark palace. I want to help, and I do in some sense, but at expense to myself or something. Idk. It *feels* very similar to Saturn, except I/we have a much better conceptual framework laid out for understanding Saturns diurnal challenges than we have for diurnal Venus acting as a (natural) Saturnian proxy. Saturn challenges and then rewards when dignified- simple enough, but venuses schema plays out as a convoluted yet mores streamlined microcosm of Saturn. The rest of my chart is testifying to broadly negative outcomes/cynicism as far as my perceiving it as subjectively “good??? goes, so there’s also that.

Even my very first fore into the world of divination and astrology was itself a fated excursion into a darkness. The very woman I was seeing who sold me on astrology’s merits (previous women in my life had tried but failed) ended up never wanting to speak to me again. We managed an extremely dynamic sexual and intellectual reciprocity that lasted for four months (which she herself initiated as a total and complete stranger at a club. One of the only women who has ever openly solicited me in person, and *the* only woman who has ever done it that brazenly/fast). I still miss her, and she still won’t ever speak to me again even though nothing on its face would have warranted such severity. But perhaps that’s for the best? It was a case of unrequited love (I have stopped any sort of relational commitment cold-turkey for fear of what I might do to women I get too close to after my last two 1/2 year relationship which ended last august).


That’s more or less the meat and potatoes of my spiel here. While it’s all fun and stuff, I expose myself to things that don’t get me anywhere towards ends that seem to erode at my constitution and to some extent possibly my spirit. I become more reasonable and “better integrated??? as a human being at what it seemingly the expense (real or imagined) of a life-affirming trajectory. Increasingly as time passes I’ve becomes burden with notions that I have not incarnated in a way that permits me to carve out a future for myself, as said future is increasingly jeopardized by how close to actual death I feel I sometimes walk on what seems to be an increasingly perilous journey.

Conventional wisdom would say I should just stop doing whatever it is I do that’s bad for me, and yet my fate (as indicated namely by cap Jupiter and a fading angular mars) seems to demand that I take whatever it is to its logical end. I’m not sure I have alternatives available to me, especially after these latest insights into my own chart (which I typically avoid looking at because it both bums me out and confuses me).

With all that said, would love to hear people’s different interpretations on out of sect benefics (particularly dignity ones) and how you think they manifest generally speaking, but particularly in terms of their negative effects.


I also have a secondary interest in the natal syzygy’s conjunction with my natal moon, if anyone knows what’s going on there (if anything).

To all of you who made it to the bottom- thank you. This write up was something I wrote piecemeal over a couple of days, so I do apologize if it’s a bit disjointed and a bit scatterbrained at times.


I’ve waited to post something along these lines in here for over a year-year 1/2 because I have an unbelievable respect for this community, and value it above any other community I’ve thus far been exposed to. However, as I inch closer to some very extreme transits coming up as soon as Saturn enters its own bound of Aquarius (not long after which I will have my first L1 release from fortune), and lasting until the end of my saturn return a few years from now- If I’m ever to use this forum as a medium for talking about myself -it’s probably now.

I just don’t feel I am where I need to be yet in my personal natal awareness if I want to survive whatever is now just beyond the horizon. I get the sense that I am energetically compromised in ways I’ve never really been, and crave a deeper awareness of my chart towards the end of preserving my (Pisces/libra) body, and my vitality.

That’s it. And for anyone wanting to chime in with anything related to antisciion, sect, nodal calculations, etc. independent of my own chart outline.- I encourage you to do so! Never can be enough chat surrounding these subjects imo.

Birth info:
3:08pm Austin, Texas Nov 4th 1996

Can’t seem to get the photo links to work. I’ll have to try and reformat again later in the day.

I included birth information at the bottom of the post.

hi franzschubert...

nice name! did your mom name you that? lol... she has a sense of humour if so and good taste in music! i am not into antiscia but i am into the nodal axis - rka is short hand for rahu-ketu axis... the fact the venus saturn opposition is linked to this axis puts a much greater emphasis on this opposition in the chyart.. it also takes on a greater weight given the fact this opposition is in the ascendant / descendant of your chart..

i use sidereal zodiac in some weird hybrid manner with regard to signs and angles and etc. technically using whole sign - venus/saturn nodes are in the 8/2 axis.. if you look at the moon being of great importance, saturn/venus are in the 8/2 axis to your moon as well... meanwhile venus/saturn nodes are in the 12/6th to your sun... the idea that you have issues with money and sex seem to fit well into this set up.. perhaps you have some saturnian talents.. often times a connection with a planet to the south node implies this... it may also be seen with a planet and the north node too - a greater ability for venusian activities.. it goes with your skyscript name!!

i suspect the obsessions you are grappling with are very much connected to this outstanding set up in your chart.. its nice the fondness you hold towards your grandmother... saturn is in pisces no matter which zodiac you use... you mention her having many planets in pisces.. this connection does seem special...

i am not sure if you asked a question, but regarding antiscia - someone else will have to volunteer their thoughts.. cheers james

james_m wrote:hi franzschubert...

nice name! did your mom name you that? lol... she has a sense of humour if so and good taste in music! i am not into antiscia but i am into the nodal axis - rka is short hand for rahu-ketu axis... the fact the venus saturn opposition is linked to this axis puts a much greater emphasis on this opposition in the chyart.. it also takes on a greater weight given the fact this opposition is in the ascendant / descendant of your chart..

Thank you for your response (and the compliment on my name ). No, Schubert is just my favorite composer.

Using what system is it in the ascendant/descendant of the chart? I know that my sidereal (lahiri) ascendant is Aquarius.

i use sidereal zodiac in some weird hybrid manner with regard to signs and angles and etc. technically using whole sign - venus/saturn nodes are in the 8/2 axis.. if you look at the moon being of great importance, saturn/venus are in the 8/2 axis to your moon as well... meanwhile venus/saturn nodes are in the 12/6th to your sun... the idea that you have issues with money and sex seem to fit well into this set up.. perhaps you have some saturnian talents.. often times a connection with a planet to the south node implies this... it may also be seen with a planet and the north node too - a greater ability for venusian activities.. it goes with your skyscript name!!

It hadn't occurred to me that the chart is set up that way, to where the lights both end up mimicking (the sun to a lesser extent) a similar setup of aversion with regards to those specific placements.

I take it you put some significance into the ketu conjunction. I've always been conservative with nodal conjunctions and have tried just sticking to within 2 or so degrees. My understanding of the south node is that it works to practically diminish or otherwise transfer the energies of planetary expression into something ethereal or intangible. I've seen a number of charts with hard planetary conjunctions to the south node where the two together seemingly rendered the planets touched obsolete/dysfunctional. Rahu's influence has always been easier for me to "see".

As for Saturnian talents... Not sure. To the extent that such talents might apply to myself, I have a very particular knack for assessing and coherently being able to compartmentalize interpersonal dynamics for myself and others, and extrapolating the interpersonal/experiential to the metaphysical (i.e. I immediately took to astrology like nothing else I'd ever come across). In that way -grouping ideas related to people- I would say I am structurally oriented, but otherwise I'm not so sure.

i suspect the obsessions you are grappling with are very much connected to this outstanding set up in your chart.. its nice the fondness you hold towards your grandmother... saturn is in pisces no matter which zodiac you use... you mention her having many planets in pisces.. this connection does seem special...

In tropical Saturn is at 1 degree of aries rx, unless there's something else you're referencing. That placement seems appropriate to me, as I've had a very extreme life (largely related to indiscipline) and Saturn's location on one of the cardinal points would speak to that. That's to say nothing of how profoundly I've grappled with specifically 2nd house issues, and issues relating to a lack of material security/what has heretofore been an inability to accumulate wealth.

i am not sure if you asked a question, but regarding antiscia - someone else will have to volunteer their thoughts.. cheers james

I suppose my ultimate question relates generally to what other more veteran practitioners have to say about some of these particular arrangements in my chart. I find I myself lack the experience and the general know-how as far as interpreting some of these placements go, and that I am generally not very good at reading my own chart compared to the charts of others.

Additionally, I know Libra Venus is statistically correlated with a very low average length of life. I know that from a study I looked at over a year ago (that I can't find atm) which was one of the first compelling empirical/data-oriented astrological studies I'd ever seen/have seen to date, and it correlated domiciled planets with length of life. In the study Libra Venus eclipsed any of the other placements assessed for, putting the average age at 33-35 or so (maybe younger but not older).

Knowing that my L1 release from fortune (into Aquarius) in late January takes place during Saturn's ingress into its own bounds of my 12th house in concurrence with Venus opposing Moon/mars, Jupiter opposing Venus/conjoin SN, and a number of other factors- I am concerned for what that could indicate after seeing the 8th house rulers relation to the ascendant by antiscia. On this accord, I am just curious as to what alternative perspectives (if any) people might have on what the relation by antiscia could mean indicate, and more generally what the likelihood of me experiencing serious health afflictions between now and my saturn return appear to be. If there are health afflictions indicated (or other kinds), whether or not there are holistic ways to remediate some of the oncoming energies.

The more difficult to question to answer though that I'm looking to figure out is what Venus+NN in the 8th indicates, especially given its squaring fortune. What does that likely indicate given the context I've provided? I feel as though I go through life as something of a headless chicken, and much of that has to do with the fact that I can't decipher key arrangements of my own chart. To what end am I so driven by compulsion (specifically the ones that I've outlined), and is there likely to at any point be a meaningful resolution that I'm able to achieve?

Also unfortunately have had no success attempting to reformat the images in the OP. If anyone knows how to fix that please let me know.

learning how to read a chart is a lifelong process... i see it as an artistic thing and believe everyone does it differently ... with a profusion of approaches, techniques and tools to use, you can see how it can get very personal and in many regards subjective...

one place to start is with putting great emphasis on the angles and what planets are in the angles.. obviously it all matters, but i would say your chart emphasizes the saturn-venus opposition and rka for this reason.. it becomes more significant..

in most indian astrology i have read about - the sign is the house - thus what i think is what is called whole sign houses... this would put the saturn/venus opp in the 2/8 houses to the ascendant axis.. however, your ascendant at 27 aquarius and saturn at 7 pisces - 10 degree orb, puts it as the planet most closely associated with the angles.. saturn takes on a prominence and is said to be in a difficult position in the first... i share this position with saturn about 5 degrees off my ascendant in the 1st...

i only mention talent, as it is an idea that i have been playing around with - south node, or ketu as expressing some latent talent held over from a previous life or something.. again the idea of karma and previous lives is an indian thing too i suppose... in fact, up until recently my understanding of the nodal axis is that the north node was supposed to imply some special ability or talent... i am not sure about all this, but it is a concept i continue to study..

the rka - rahu/ketu axis) has taken on greater importance in my understanding of astrology... it is directly connected to the eclipse cycles and especially when the nodal axis returns to this part of the chart - either in conjunction or opposition - it is a time of great significance, especially if a person has planets in close proximity to this axis... it took me a long time to figure this all out.. i mostly ignored the rka most of my life, up until maybe 5-10 years ago... perhaps it is quite relevant and impactful when it is in the bends or squares to itself as well... that makes sense to me too, but i am speculating..

i think the saturn-venus connections is very much about money and resources, even if it wasn't associated with the 2/8 houses! but as i pointed out to you, the various ways to read your chart off ascendant - the most obvious, but also off sun or moon - less obvious - repeats this pattern.. in indian astrology reading a chart off the moon is very important and given almost equal footing in chart reading... i came around to seeing the great importance of the moon in my own chart many years ago, but because my moon is also very close to the ascendant degree and in the same sign rising - i always took it for granted.. however, i have found that the moon is much more significant then a lot of astrology lets on, regardless whether it is a nocturnal or diurnal chart... so - reading the houses off the moon is critical to better understanding a chart as i see it..

young and old astrologers get caught up in a lot of minor details and often overlook the really significant stuff in a chart.. obviously the ascendant, sun and moon are rightly thought of as most significant, but it doesn't stop astrologers from going down various rabbit holes and trying to dig for gold, lol.. i think we might be better studying the obvious sometimes!

there are a lot of ways to read a chart.. in the case of my own, i mostly stay focused on the moment - so transits and etc etc. remain very important in understanding what is happening in the present... the past is a great research tool, but if you are young, you don't have a lot to study! the future remains in the future and it will come when it comes..

i am sorry if i haven't addressed any individual concerns you have, but hopefully something i have said here will arouse your curiousity... cheers james