https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Turner,_Tina

here it is in sidereal - krisnamurti



i think of her as a fiery lady and a trailblazer of sorts... perhaps the fiery part is the sun- moon opposition in square to mars, so mars is at the top of a t square in the 7th house area - 8th sign though.. we know of the rough relationship she had with ike which got her career going and was an early phase of her growth as an artist.. essentially the moon is applying to mercury and separating from mars, so this mars-mercury square takes on greater significance here as well... for those who were wondering about whether a full moon is auspicious or not - she is born on the full moon.. was it an auspicious life?? it would seem so, but this is a very limited study!

if you include the outers the chart is a 'splash' chart according to marc edmund jones... it is a person who can go in a number of different directions and may lack focus.. in her case music and acting seem to have captured and held her focus for the duration of her life.. are prominent moons found in the lives of actors? or is it only in politicians?

you could say her life was more fated given how the emphasis of the planets is in the western hemisphere, a characteristic of a western hemisphere emphasis... but she took what was given to her and made a fascinating life out of it.. moon and uranus at the top of the chart near the midheaven are in the east and seem to again be a driving force in the way her life unfolded... uranus squared onto the ascendant from the 10th is certainly an unique and perhaps unorthodox, but very independent suggestion in itself, especially career wise..

in looking at the last solar return for her - 2022- i use natal location regardless of where she lived at the time - i find the chart quite fascinating and telling in regards the timing of her death here.. below is the 2022 solar return chart..



i note the close conjunction of saturn at the ic point - opposite the midheaven... this point is said to represent endings and there is no greater ending then that of death.. it so happens that the solar return saturn is also on the exact degree of the ascendant axis in her natal chart - a bit less then 1 degree aspect on the descendant... now in indian astrology the 2nd and 7th house and rulers are said to have a direction connection to death.. these houses are referred to as the maraka houses.. these planets take on even greater significance if they rule the 6th or 8th house as well, as is the case here with saturn in the natal chart ruling the 7th and 8th houses...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraka_(Hindu_astrology)

i thought it was interesting... perhaps others would like to offer some astrology on tina turner which would be nice... cheers james

Here's a copy of Tina's chart using the tropical zodiac and Placidus house cusps:
Yes, she was marked by a fiery signature...

Here is a bi-wheel to demonstrate the transit reconnections active at the time of her death - impossible not to be hit in the face with the power of this line-up. May she be rising now like a phoenix in all her glory

thanks deb,

well she lived a good long life - there is that.. it was an exciting adventure by the look of it! i have so many quick questions to ask you, i better be careful, lol! one of the most interesting transits for me is the uranus return and the prominence of the planet in her chart.. i do agree these transits, taken all together look like a good time to check out!

what do you think is the astro reason behind the observation of her fiery nature? do you think signs trump planets in terms of the expression of energy of this nature?

what do you think of the concept of the hyleg? apparently this was used for determining the length of life.. i am not sure what it is in her chart.

there are so many ways to medically alter length of life, maybe it is a mute point at this time.. fortunately no one is in the business ( to my knowledge ) of predicting on the death of people.. i suppose one could do it, but what is the point?

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there are a few other observations i'd like to make on the sidereal chart... mutual exchange between saturn and mars is interesting.. that brings together the 7th and 10th house rulers which i think is favourable from the point of view of associations being rewarding and productive for ones career.. no one gets to where tina turner is without the help of others.. but by the sounds of it, she had to reinvent herself too, which is no small feat...

I don't have much time today James as I am working on a page addition and pushing against my energy levels to get it finished. I have written about the hyleg etc, according to the tradition, but in my own experience no one detail like that is going to key you into the dramatic moment. The other thing you find repeatedly expressed in the tradition, which is what I underline myself, is to never rely on one stand alone event, but always look for a configuration -- a whole pattern of reconnections to the themes in the natal chart - Tina's is a perfect example. So we have a Uranus return and that sets a dramatic theme, but that can manifest in so many ways over such along period of time, so it is pretty meaningless as a one-off event. But here the whole natal pattern is repeated and triggered within the context of that AND the Mars/Pluto/Saturn configurations. There is massive tension/energy/blow-out being expressed here - a younger person might have had major life-changing events and used that energy in another way, but for a woman of her age, it's not surprising that her 'release' of energy was what happened.

Animation of Tina Turners chart with 4 minutes for each year 83.5 year.

On the angles are Saturn Nodal axis and Pluto.

A quite challenging pattern on the angles in primary direction.

thanks deb.. i agree with you about the heightened tension in those transits and of course how it would be processed differently depending on the age of the person.. that is always good to keep in mind - how external factors like a persons age and etc. etc. - can all have a particular impact that is not gotten off the chart itself...

stefan - cool... i take it you are using 4 minutes as a progression method as in 4 minutes = 1 year... how have you entered that into solar fire?? as i understand it, the ascendant moves in the opposite direction to the zodiac in primary directions... martin or you or someone can help correct me if i am wrong here.. so it is interesting to see the 4' prog rate get from leo to libra - about 70 degrees in 83.5 years... i suppose virgo - libra are faster rising signs...

james_m wrote:as i understand it, the ascendant moves in the opposite direction to the zodiac in primary directions... martin or you or someone can help correct me if i am wrong here.. so it is interesting to see the 4' prog rate get from leo to libra - about 70 degrees in 83.5 years... i suppose virgo - libra are faster rising signs...

The ascendant 'moves' forward in zodiacal order (in terms of observational astronomy, it is really the ecliptic that moves across the stationary horizon). Virgo and Libra rise slowly in the northern hemisphere, which is why the ascendant covers fewer ecliptical degrees than the number of years.

https://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2021/11 ... irections/

James

Here is an example of how a chart is animated to the age of person by adding to get a visual of the primary motioned chart for the age. Anthony Louis use here Naibod key adding about 3.9 minutes by each year of living.
I have seen him adding 4 minutes / year as well (Ptolemy key).

I used the animation feature of solar fire. Setting the rate to 4 minutes and then just clicking 4minutes 83 times (plus 2 minutes) to coming to Tina’s age of 83.5 years. This instead of doing the math this time. This seen from some clip also by Anthony I think. The same directions was seen in list form in Janus software so it should be correct I think.

Natally, Tina Turner has
Aries Point = MA/SA Death public as well as periodic working.

Transiting
MA/SA = Natal and transiting Uranus square ASC

thanks stefan

i have essentially given up on primary directions.. there are too many options to them with many different end points.. also i seem to recall martin gansten saying solar fire can't produce pds properly... you are using the animated feature on solar fire - a cool feature in itself, but while what you share is interesting, i am not convinced of its value... if someone was to use this tool in advance for predictive purposes - say on an election or something - it would grab my attention... maybe someone is... all the hindsight astrology is just that - we can use it to learn from, but i remain a skeptic, especially on primary directions...

actually after reading martin ganstens books, i am still no further ahead.. i don't find the books and his dissertation of it all - convincing... my problem is the selectivity of certain options - a real bugaboo of astrology, that hinges on each individual practitioner of the art..

thanks for the anthony louis article - i read it, but again find it all very unconvincing..

for the record, i did look at the direct and converse primary directions using the morinus program and saw some interesting connections... i am probably using a different set of options and i used the naibod key...

i am reminded of donna cunningham who relied solely on transit data.. i am coming to a similar conclusion myself on all the different ways astrologers have to understanding a chart or for predictive purposes - less is better... maybe i am not as radical as her, but i find myself gravitating to a position that is similar... of course it is an art!! to each his or her own!!

ouranos

thanks! aries point ( Aries Point = MA/SA)- i don't see it because i am using the sidereal zodiac, lolol... or - i see a different point, lolol!

are you having fun with the 90 degree wheel, or is it something else you are using to get these midpoints? next thing we know you will be using all sorts of obscure harmonics and find yourself in linchis camp!!

are you having fun with the 90 degree wheel, or is it something else you are using to get these midpoints? next thing we know you will be using all sorts of obscure harmonics and find yourself in linchis camp!!

Nothing too complicated. When you open up a chart in Solar Fire, you select Dial instead of Wheel on the upper right side corner.
The 90 degree Dial is pretty reliable, showing up the conjunctions, squares and oppositions all in conjunction. Semi-squares and sesqui-quadrates will appear on the opposite side of the wheel.
Incidentally, Tina Turner died with Jupiter conjunct the South Node and I was curious to see who had this at birth (Aries constellation). Guess who? Audrey Hepburn! Some spiritual lineage at the soul level.

thanks ouranos

i was introduced to ebertins work and cosmobiology more generally when i was in my 20's - over 40 years ago.. i am very familiar with the use of the 90 degree wheel... at one point in time i was working with the 45 and 22.5 degree wheels as well which is sort of like what linchi is doing - higher harmonics essentially.. i think the last time i looked at these higher frequency wheels or dials was maybe 10 years ago... i always look at the 90 degree dial as it quickly highlights the 45/135 aspects which i think are very relevant..

tina turner had saturn-ketu or south node by birth.. i have a few friends with this combo.. i think it can be very positive and spiritual in nature... maybe jupiter- south node is too, but i think all of these combos have positive and negative possibilities..

jupiter gets all the cred in astrology and saturn is given short shrift.. that is my take on astrology generally speaking.. i don't agree with that viewpoint.. but it is interesting to consider jupiter in relation to death as it does appear to have a strong connection.. maybe because one is going on a journey to a different reality.. that sounds very jupiterian!