Skyscript Astrology Forum

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:40 pm**

Hi all,

Back in 2006, while reading Robert Hand's translation of Omar of Tiberias: Three Books on Nativities I had a few ideas about directions come together in my head. I've been experimenting with them on and off over the ensuing years but, unfortunately, not in a very organized fashion; I have files and notes floating around in various drawers and on a number hard disks (having changed computers 2 or 3 times in between). Every once and a while I get the urge to organize my thoughts and the material, make a start and then life interferes, drawing my attention elsewhere. Now I have decided, since I recently turned 70, that I had better get a move on and that my best bet at actually getting a handle on things is to take it in small steps. Which leads me to this post.

I've been thinking that if I try to clearly spell out the main idea that hit me in 2006 and commit myself to working on/cleaning up one chart a week I will eventually produce enough chart case studies to satisfy myself on the value, or lack thereof, of my main idea. I'm hoping that doing this publicly, in this space, will keep me (a) committed, and (b) honest and that my ramblings may possibly draw comments from forum readers that will spark refinements or new lines of investigation. This is asking alot, I know, since no one here knows me from Adam, so here's a brief bio on my astrological path...

First let me say, I am not, and never have been, a professional astrologer; it's been an avocation rather than a vocation.

I first became interested in astrology in my teens when a friend gave me a pocket book of Evangeline Adams Sun Signs. Later I found The Compleat Astrologer by Derek and Julia Parker, McGraw-Hill, 1971 and what was essentially a Coles notes on the topic, Astrology by R. David, Coles Publishing, 1975. From these I graduated to The Modern Textbook of Astrology by Margaret E. Hone, Fowler, 1975 reprint and joy of joys, I found a real emphemeris, The American Ephemeris 1931-1980 by Neil F. Michelsen ACS Publishing, 1976. My introduction to primaries came in the form of The Progressed Horoscope by Alan Leo, Astrologer's Library reprint 1978.

In the '80s I stumbled on Elbert Benjamine writing as C. C. Zain and completed his Hermetic lessons through the Canadian branch of the Church of Light.

In the 2002 I found Robert Zoller's work and completed his Foundation Course and then, in 2003, his DMA Certificate course. Reading his Bonatti translations.

In 2006 I came across Robert Corre's site, took a few of his courses and read my way through all of Morin's work. I also came across a number of Project Hindsight's books.

In 2009 I took a number of Schmidt's "Intensives": Zodiacal Releasing, Hermetic Lots, and Planetary Configurations. I've also read most of what he and or Project Hindsight published.

Somewhere in there I've also read numerous modern and traditional texts by Dane Rudhyar, Noel Tyl, Sakonian & Acker, Doris Doane, Sue Ward, John Frawley, Deb Houlding, along with any old text I could lay my hands on Lilly, Sepherial, Raphael, Leo, etc. As well as new translations of texts by James Holden, Dorian Greenbaum, Demetra George, Meira Epstein, Benjamin Dykes, Chris Brennan, Lee Lehman, Rumen Kolev, etc. Essentially my bookshelves are overflowing although I divested myself of most of the modern texts when I downsized in 2007.

I have also done some reading on Chinese, Indian, and Babylonian astrology and poked around with Magi Astrology. In other words, I have read, and tried out numerous 'techniques'; in the end I find myself usually falling back on Zain for natal reading but have been at sea on predictive techniques so I had quite a start when an idea on a specific approach to prediction suddenly formed in my sore head (and apologies if I have given you a sore head as well) which I will attempt to outline clearly in the next post.

Edit: Modified the thread title, changing "Investigating Primary Directions,..." to "Investigating Directions,..."

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:02 pm**

The Natal Chart

It struck me that the basic nativity is a tiny (micro-cosmic) clone of the universe as it existed at the moment of birth; that we each carry with us our own little universe which encapsulates, "fixes", the zodiac of our birth along with its motions.

Motion

There are 3 basic motions embedded in our little universe that equate to three methods of direction and each completed 360° of motion is equal to 1 year.

1) Earth's rotation of 360° around its own axis during which time the Sun appears to move 1° on the horizon (Primary Motion) where 1° = 1 year

2) The Moon's revolution of 360° around the Earth during which time the Sun appears to move 30° through the zodiac (Profection) where 30° = 1 year (Omar's maiora esse or "greater being")

3) The Earths' revolution of 360° around the Sun, during which time the Sun appears to move 360° through the zodiac (Transit) where 360° = 1 year (Omar's minora esse or "lesser being")

All these motions are continuous with our moment of birth acting as our own personal equinoctial or Aries point.

While Profection and Transit motions are measured in Zodiacal Longitude, Primary Motion is measured in Oblique Ascension which is then converted to Zodiacal Longitude as all aspects are measured in Longitude.

Latitude

When converting Oblique Degrees to Zodiacal Longitude we are to remember, as Dorotheus and countless others tell us, the latitude. This means the latitude of the birth (the clime) as well as the latitude of the houses and planets as they appear to in our little universe.

In other words, assume that as our small universe continues to turn the planets continue to move on their apparent latitudes or diurnal circles; maintaining their positions relevant to each other but "projecting" their rays on to our little fixed zodiac rather than the changing universal zodiac we see when we look up at the sky.

Summary

Essentially, what gets "fixed" or "pinned down" at the moment of birth is the zodiac and the planets in their diurnal circles. The planets "project" their rays from their ascensional positions onto our personal "fixed" zodiac. They are no longer the real planets moving up in the sky but microcosmic planets moving in our own private universe

Houses Used

The Placidus Houses are used for the radix chart with Placidus House cusp and planet poles. Cusps act as sensitive points and can be active by direction.

Profections begin on the birthday each year and are measured from the radix Ascendant at the rate of 30° per year. Subsequent houses are measured in 30° segments starting with the profected Asc. The resulting "cusps" fall within Whole Signs, the effects of planets falling before a cusp are felt/manifest in both houses.

Why these are used will be shown more clearly in actual examples.

Example Charts

To start with I will be using charts from Celestial Philosophy by John Worsdale. He includes 30 charts, and while they make sad reading as nearly all of them involve deaths, they have the advantage of being reasonably well timed and documented. He also provides primary directions which can be eaily compared to those found here.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:56 pm**

James Attersall was a young boy who died September 22, 1819, just before his second birthday …

“On the day of Death, the Child went into the Street unobserved by any one, and immediately accompanied several other Children who were playing very near a Horse that was feeding a short distance from the Door, near the side of the River. The Horse was always considered to be a very quiet Animal, but in the fatal Hour, he kicked at the Children, yet none were injured, except the unfortunate Child, who received the stroke in its forehead, which proved instantly mortal; his Death happened on the 22nd of September, 1819, near three o’clock in the Afternoon, Age one Year, eleven Months, and twenty days.???

Worsdale found no direction that matched this event, his list has the Moon quintile Venus at the age of 1 year 8 months and the “Ascendant to the body of Saturn in Mundo??? at the age of 2 years and 8 months. To account for the death he says:

“[F]or those who die in infancy, or before the end of the fifth Year, are generally destroyed by those malignant and destructive positions that are formed in the Heavens at the time of Birth; as Ptolemy clearly informs us, and not by Directions, which was the case in this unfortunate Geniture...

[T]he Astral causes that produced the sudden and violent Death of this Child, are plainly visible; the Ascendant is afflicted by the Body of Saturn, and Square of the Moon, and Mars in Mundo; the Moon is conjoined with Mars among evil Stars in the Northern Angle, approaching the Terms of Saturn, without any relief, and that Luminary is applying to the Mundande Square of Saturn, by direct motion. The Part of Fortune is afflicted by the opposition of the Moon and Mars; but I judged the work of Mortality to arise chiefly from the unterrupted communication of those violent rays of Mars and the Moon from the Imum Celi, to the Sun, who is the true Apheta, or giver of Life, particularly because the Hyleg is near the Body of Mercury, and Rapt Parallel of Saturn; and I shall observe that Mercury is of the nature of the enemies in the Celestial constitution.???

Extended Speculum

OAUBP is the "Oblique Ascension under the Birth Pole" (Birth Latitude of 53N15). The Planet and House Poles are calculated using Placidus formulas.

Lots are directed using the birth latitude of 53N15

Formula for the Lot of Death = Saturn + 8th House Cusp - Moon = 19 Cancer
Formula for the Lot of Accident = Asc + Saturn - Mars = 17 Scorpio

Directions
The event took place on September 22, 1819, just a few days before his second birthday. I calculate the PD's for each month on the birthday, here I looked at September 1 to October 1 1819.

Primaries
The age arc for the primaries is 1°55'
The profection is in Aries, Mars is Lord of the Year (LoY)

directed Asc 3 Pisces conjunct directed Saturn
directed MC 20 Sag opp Mars radical 20 Gemini
directed Sun 7 Libra opp prof Asc at 7 Aries
directed Neptune 19 Capricorn opp radical Lot of Death (19 Cancer)

directed Mars 17 Taurus sextile directed Lot of Death 17 Cancer
directed Mars 17 Taurus opp radix Lot of Accident 17 Scorpio

The symbolism is fairly telling, an accidental death brought on by the little boys own actions (MC) and Mars (accident), especially as he directly signifies the him as Lord of the Year. And the evil effect of Saturn meeting with the Asc is warned of in nearly every text.

Maiora Esse
The profected chart moves at the rate of 30° from one birthday to the next. This equates to 365 days / 30° or 12.17 days per degree.

The event took place on September 22, 1819, 356 days after his first birthday.
356/12.17 = 29.25 = 29° 15'

Adding this to the profected Asc of 7 Aries gives 7 Taurus - no aspect
Adding the same to Mars, LoY, at 20 Gemini gives 19 Cancer - conjunct radix Lot of Death

Minora Esse
The entire profected chart moves at 1° per day

Adding 356 degrees to the profected Asc gives 3 Aries - no aspect
Adding 356 degrees to Mars, LoY, gives 16 Gemini - conjunct the Moon (body, rules Lot of Death)
Adding 356 degrees to the cusp of the profected 12th (7 Pisces) gives 3 Pisces, conjunct the Asc/Saturn primary direct conjunction

The maiora/minora aspects reinforce the primary directions. Saturn is a constituent of the Lot of Death, Mars, of the Lot of Accident. Both are active.

The Sun's connection to the profected Asc and as ruler of the profected 5th could be indicating the child's sense of pleasure (5th) at being free and Neptune's opposition to Death could indicate his death while involved with a group (Zain says it rules large groups).

Hope I've managed to lay that out in a reasonably clear manner.

Edit: Corrected an error in the Lot of Death formula, had Asc + 8th House Cusp - Moon, should have been Saturn + 8th House Cusp - Moon. The formula itself is from Late Classical Astrology: Paulus Alexandrinus and Olympiodorus, trans. by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum, ARHAT, 2008 (his lots are given in his commentary on Paulus and are listed together in Appendix I of the text). The Lot of Accident is part of the Lot selection in Janus 5.0, they don't give the source.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:00 pm**

Thanks for starting this interesting thread. I wonder, though:

janegca wrote:Primaries
The age arc for the primaries is 1°55'
[...]

directed Asc 3 Pisces conjunct directed Saturn
directed MC 20 Sag opp Mars radical 20 Gemini

Did you mean for these to be primary directions in the normal sense, or am I missing something? And are you directing the angles by converse motion but Saturn by direct motion?

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:36 pm**

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Janegca, really interesting!

Profections begin on the birthday each year and are measured from the radix Ascendant at the rate of 30° per year. Subsequent houses are measured in 30° segments starting with the profected Asc. The resulting "cusps" fall within Whole Signs, the effects of planets falling before a cusp are felt/manifest in both houses.

Why use 30° per year? In your example chart, the AS at 7 Pis 57. Does it mean that at 1 year old, it would be at 7 Aries 57? In the local sphere, the 2nd House starts at 6 Tau 14. How to you reconcile the distance?
Also the higher the latitude of a planet, north or south, the more the position of the planet will have
chances of being somewhere else on the ecliptic. A problem of domitude.

3 quotes taken from an article by Danièle Jay, La Domitude
https://www.ora-astrologie.fr/articles-en-libre-accès

'...We can however think that a transit by conjunction in particular has any chance of being
show all the more efficient as the latitude of the transiting planet is all the closer of the transited natal position.' Max Duval, La Domification et les transits, Editions Traditionnelles, Paris 1987.

'The second comes from Ptolemy. In his chapter on the duration of life (Tetrabiblos, III, 11 translation by Pascal Charvet, p. 155), Ptolemy declares, even before explaining his method of directing the significators...
'...This harmful action [of the destructive planets] is equally hindered if both celestial bodies, the meeting of the planet of the vital direction with the planet interference does not occur at the same latitude , end phrase that Nicolas Bourdin translates by the clearer expression ' when the hyleg and the anaereta are in the same degree but in a more or less distant latitude' .

The third can be read in Ibn Ezra; this one writes about the deadly Directions:
'The places that are to be feared for severing life are the places of Saturn and Mars. Whether
the anareta has no latitude (distance from the wheel of the ecliptic), it will cut off life when it
will arrive on the Sun, on the rising degree, on the lot of fortune, on the place of
conjunction or opposition of the luminaries (NM or FM), and also on the Moon if it has no latitude, or if it has the same latitude as that of Saturn or Mars, and if they are on the same side of the ecliptic. If they are on opposite side of the ecliptic, they indicate the disease and not death, and the intensity of the disease will depend on the greater or lesser difference in latitude between the two: the smaller the distance, the more intense the disease.
Know that if Saturn or Mars have a latitude, be it high or low, be it at North or South [of the ecliptic], they will never cut off life" (The Book of Nativities and revolutions, Ahrat Editions, translation by Meira B. Epstein, p. 26 from French to English, not the original). They will never decide life if they encounter a planet not having the same latitude as them.'

I don't have the details of your chart but if you calculate the Lot of Death and Accident 'in mundo', would you come up with a different degree. And Pluto has a very high Latitude North, so it might not be where it appears on the Ecliptic.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:25 pm**

Martin Gansten wrote:Thanks for starting this interesting thread. I wonder, though:

janegca wrote:Primaries
The age arc for the primaries is 1°55'
[...]

directed Asc 3 Pisces conjunct directed Saturn
directed MC 20 Sag opp Mars radical 20 Gemini
Did you mean for these to be primary directions in the normal sense, or am I missing something? And are you directing the angles by converse motion but Saturn by direct motion?

Hi Martin, I'm essentially directing everything by diurnal motion, against the order of the signs. What I'm doing differently, I believe, is I start with the planet's OA under the birth pole, subtract the age arc, and then convert back to to longitude using the planet's own pole.

So for Saturn, I've calculated his OA as 351°05', subtracted the Age Arc of 1°55' to give a new OA of 349°10' and then converted this to longitude using Saturn's pole of 53°10' rather than the birth latitude.

For the houses, I start with the RAMC - the Age Arc to get the directed MC and then recompute the house cusps by adding 30° intervals so 1st is the new RAMC + 90°. In this example, that gives RAMC 261°18' - 1°55' = 259°23' + 90° = 349°23' and convert to longitude using the birth latitude. The MC is converted using a pole of 0°, the other houses using their calculated poles.

I basically subtract the age arc from all points, effectively moving the entire chart in the diurnal (converse) direction.

The formulas I use are, for Oblique Ascension under the Pole:

Code: Select all

OA = RA - asin(tan(declination) x tan(birth latitude))

For a planet's Pole:

Code: Select all

ppa = 90 / planet semi-arc x meridian distance
ad = meridian distance - ppa
if ad < 0 then ad = ppa - meridian distance
pole = abs(atan(sin(ad) / tan(declination)))

And for house poles:

Code: Select all

x = asin(tan(birth latitude) x tan(obliquity))

H11 & H2 Poles = atan(sin(x/3) / tan(obliquity))
H12 & H3 Poles = atan(sin(x/3*2) / tan(obliquity))

Hope that makes what I'm doing a little clearer.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:23 pm**

Hi Ouranos,

Why use 30° per year? In your example chart, the AS at 7 Pis 57. Does it mean that at 1 year old, it would be at 7 Aries 57? In the local sphere, the 2nd House starts at 6 Tau 14. How to you reconcile the distance?

I'm using 30° degrees per year as I began by following Omar:

“…[it is such] that you should look from the degree to which the profection of the Ascendant comes at [the rate of] 30 degrees for one year. After this reckon from the degree to which the [profection of the] year comes at the [rate of] a completion of 30 degrees and [this] for every year; that is, you will give 30 degrees for every year.??? (Omar of Tiberius: Three Books on Nativities trans. Robert Hand, p27)

So starting with the Asc degree of 7 Pisces at birth (age 0), the profected Asc at the 1st birthday would be 7 Aries, at the 2nd birthday, 7 Taurus, and so on. I have stuck with this measure as I've come to believe it's based on the Moon's revolution around the Earth, during which time the Sun appears to move through 30° of zodiacal longitude. I have done profections using one house = one year but as a rule I've found the 30° from the Asc to give better results, especially when there are intercepted signs.

As an example, I originally did use the cusp of the 2nd House (6 Taurus) as the Profected Asc where Venus would have been the Lord of the Year and the year would have run from 6 Taurus to 3 Gemini for a difference of 27 degrees which would yield 365/27=13.52 days per degree and 26.33 degrees until the event (356 x 13.52). This gave no partile aspects in either the maiora esse or the minora esse. Initially I used the Alchabitius houses for profections, as recommended by Zoller, which would also have given Mars as Lord of the Year but eventually I settled on Placidus and the 30° beginning from the Asc as providing the most profitable approach.

Also the higher the latitude of a planet, north or south, the more the position of the planet will have chances of being somewhere else on the ecliptic. A problem of domitude.

3 quotes taken from an article by Danièle Jay, La Domitude
https://www.ora-astrologie.fr/articles-en-libre-accès

As all your quotes mention, latitude comes into play; which is why, after calculating the planet's directed position in OA, I use the planet's own pole to convert it's position back into zodiacal longitude. This is evident in the calculation of Saturn's position. In the radix he is at 0 Pisces, I've subtracted the age arc of 1°55' from his OA at birth and on converting that into longitude he is at 3 Pisces, not, as one might suspect, somewhere at the end of Aquarius, given that I'm moving him in the diurnal direction.

I don't have the details of your chart but if you calculate the Lot of Death and Accident 'in mundo', would you come up with a different degree. And Pluto has a very high Latitude North, so it might not be where it appears on the Ecliptic.

All the lots are on the ecliptic and have the birth latitude as their latitude. An 'in mundo' calculation doesn't apply. i.e. they all have a declination of 0°.

Hope that's clearer.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:20 pm**

janegca wrote:Hi Martin, I'm essentially directing everything by diurnal motion, against the order of the signs. What I'm doing differently, I believe, is I start with the planet's OA under the birth pole, subtract the age arc, and then convert back to to longitude using the planet's own pole.

Thanks for explaining your procedure. Yes, both assuming that every planet's OA under its own pole should change at a uniform rate and converting everything back to longitude (presumably to define aspects/conjunctions that way) is certainly different from primary directions as usually understood.

Moreover, you are in fact directing the angles against the diurnal motion, not with it, since it is not the angles that are made to move through the zodiac by that motion, but rather the zodiac that is made to move across the angles (that is, the horizon and meridian). So while the OA of a planet like Saturn under its own pole would indeed have decreased some 8 minutes after birth (roughly corresponding to an age of 2 years), the RAMC and OA Asc would have increased. Your new figures for the angles correspond to a time before birth rather than after it.

Incidentally, the chart you give seems to have been cast for 4:45 p.m. LMT rather than the LAT used by Worsdale (p. 19 of the book, found here), which explains the difference in house cusps and some other values.

Later edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood the early part of your statement: by 'birth pole' I now assume you mean the pole of the birth place, not the planet's own pole at birth? It's still a hybrid and non-standard method, though, not primary direction as usually defined.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:36 pm**

Hi Martin,

Thanks for explaining your procedure. Yes, both assuming that every planet's OA under its own pole should change at a uniform rate and converting everything back to longitude (presumably to define aspects/conjunctions that way) is certainly different from primary directions as usually understood.

Agree, what I'm doing is not primaries as they are usually understood and practised; I described it as "primary directions" because it's still based on "primary" motion.

Moreover, you are in fact directing the angles against the diurnal motion, not with it, since it is not the angles that are made to move through the zodiac by that motion, but rather the zodiac that is made to move across the angles (that is, the horizon and meridian). So while the OA of a planet like Saturn under its own pole would indeed have decreased some 8 minutes after birth (roughly corresponding to an age of 2 years), the RAMC and OA Asc would have increased. Your new figures for the angles correspond to a time before birth rather than after it.

Ah, I see. In real motion, if the MC moved to from 22 Sag 00 to 21 Sag 15 the actual time of the chart would be earlier, going from GMT 16:47 to GMT 16:42.
On that basis, yes, it corresponds to a time before birth. But I'm looking at moving the whole "fixed" zodiac from East to West, against itself, so the place where the cusps were are now pointing to different degrees. In my head, the chart is an exact duplicate of the sphere as it exists at birth with its own motion and time; it moves, along with us, through the larger universe under its own steam following the "zodiac" path laid out at the moment of its creation. The baked in motion is the ascensional motion.

I'm probably not explaining this well; essentially, all the motion is symbolic, not real-time. Our personal Asc is our personal Aries point, our zero day, and things roll on from there.

Incidentally, the chart you give seems to have been cast for 4:45 p.m. LMT rather than the LAT used by Worsdale (p. 19 of the book, found here), which explains the difference in house cusps and some other values.

Ack, yes; dumb mistake. I'll have to remember that as I work through the remaining charts

Although it seems I've accidentally rectified the chart, the symbolism certainly seems to apt.

Later edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood the early part of your statement: by 'birth pole' I now assume you mean the pole of the birth place, not the planet's own pole at birth? It's still a hybrid and non-standard method, though, not primary direction as usually defined.

By 'birth pole' I do mean the latitude of the birth place. But I do convert the new OA values to longitude using the calculated pole of each planet. The difference is the starting position of each planet, for time measurement purposes, is always the planet's own OA as calculated at the time and place of birth. I don't try to reconcile the positional difference between two planets using semi-arcs or proportions. I just treat them as all starting from where they appear to be at birth (ignoring 'in mundo' considerations) and then move each one under its own pole.

Apologies for being so long winded; I have never before really tried to explain, in detail, the method I've been playing with... forcing me think it through...lol, not a bad thing

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:13 pm**

janegca wrote:Agree, what I'm doing is not primaries as they are usually understood and practised; I described it as "primary directions" because it's still based on "primary" motion.

Right. To each his (or her) own. Probably good to get that clarified, though, in case someone trying to learn standard primary directions should see your examples and get confused.

And to be clear, even traditional astrological authors sometimes directed the degrees on the natal angles conversely (not the angles themselves, as they are fixed circles), treating them like any other points (planets, aspect points, etc.) moving along their own diurnal arcs. The arcs of direction would differ from yours, though.

I think I agree with you on the more metaphysical idea (what Robert Zoller called 'our personal constellation'). But I have found that microcosm to mirror the natural motions of the macrocosm quite well.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2023 10:07 pm**

I am still amazed by all the variations of Primary Directions we find in astrology literature.
And I am not saying your calculations are wrong Janegca. But in your example, you start with the Local Sphere and you switch to a... symbolic view!

Martin, do you think the cause is the multiple House systems, among other things.
And what's even more amazing to me is the secondary role Primary Directions are given in most astrology softwares. Even with Solar Fire which is considered top of the class, you get a listing of Primary Directions instead of a 'simple chart' display. In whatever House system you would choose.
Morinus software has more options but you need some expert teaching to be able to choose all the options offered.
I have 2 books by Henri Gouchon (written some 50 years ago) who explains how to calculate Primary Directions... by hand, just like what you are doing here Janegca.
Yet, the motion of the Earth seems to be the real thing to investigate for it provides a good way to rectify a chart from a few samples of past events.
Hope we will come of ages in the future!

Thank you both for your input!
Ouranos

Posted: **Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:33 am**

Ouranos wrote:I am still amazed by all the variations of Primary Directions we find in astrology literature. [...] Martin, do you think the cause is the multiple House systems, among other things.

I don't want to hijack Jane's thread, but briefly: no, I think the real reason is the break in astrological tradition and gradual loss of technical knowledge during the 19th and early 20th century. When astrology made its comeback, it went from being part of natural philosophy (science, in contemporary terms) to being part of the 'occult', and many of those attracted to it were, shall we say, less technically astute than earlier generations.

Directions have nothing to do with house systems, or rather, when they do (this goes for Regiomontanus and Placidus houses), it's the house systems that have developed out of the directions, not the other way round. Historically, there were only two ways of doing Ptolemaic directions: the way taught by Ptolemy, and the way that al-Jayy??nī and Regiomontanus thought they should have been taught. (Placidus actually made a hybrid version as a concession to people accustomed to Regiomontanus and his poles, but it's very close to the Ptolemaic method.) The belief that every house system should have its own method of directing is a 20th-century misconception.

And what's even more amazing to me is the secondary role Primary Directions are given in most astrology softwares. Even with Solar Fire which is considered top of the class, you get a listing of Primary Directions instead of a 'simple chart' display. In whatever House system you would choose.
Morinus software has more options but you need some expert teaching to be able to choose all the options offered.

I agree that SF doesn't do directions well, but in fairness, presenting them in tabular format is the way it was traditionally done. You can put them in a chart (Morinus has that option), which is useful for observing transits to directed positions, but is also potentially misleading, as directions aren't really about motion in the zodiac.

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Investigating Directions, Profections, and Lots

Investigating Directions, Profections, and Lots

The Main Idea

James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33

Re: James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33

Re: James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33

Re: James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33

Re: James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33

Re: James Attersall Born Oct 1, 1817 4:45PM 53N15 00W33