Hello all Sorry if this seems a bit premature but I saw that @Wei has started a tropical US Presidential election, so I thought that for fun, learning and experiment, that I would start my own thread but this time from a sidereal perspective. I will try in this thread to analyze all of the major candidates, using the following techniques:

1) Primary Directions
2) Profections (Yearly and Monthly)
3) Solar Revolutions
4) Secondary Directions
5) Progressions (with sidereal lunar months)
6) Finally, Transits on the day of the election

I will try to be as concise and clear as I can, using the absolute minimum number of significators before finally providing my judgement. I will also be trying my hand at rectifying the charts for the major candidates where I feel it is necessary.

Preliminaries

1) I will be using the sidereal zodiac with the Krishnamurti ayanamsa
2) I will be using Placidus houses for all charts
3) Directions will be by semi-arc w/ the key of Ptolemy

Anyways, let us begin from the most appropriate place, the incumbent: Joe Biden

1) Primary DIrections
The common time given for Joe Biden is 8:30 (A) rating, but of course, this can only be estimate. In light of this, after playing around in Morinus for a bit I've landed on a time I think reflects Joe Biden's "accidents" better, that being 8:47:20. This determination is based on both the tragedy of his first wife and daughter, as well as that involving his near death due to a brain aneurysm in February 1988 combined with a failed bid for President in that same year.

Without further ado, the relevant directions for 2024 are as follows:

Primary Directions active for 2024
Moon to the terms of Mars in Gemini - 2019.08.27
Saturn to the terms of Saturn in Leo - 2020.08.05
.
Mars to the terms of Mercury in Capricorn - 2021-03-09
.
Sun to the terms of Saturn in Capricorn - 2022.03.21
.
Moon to Sirius - 2023.02.14
Mars to the opposition of Jupiter - 2023.03.28
MC to the terms of Saturn in Scorpio - 2023.08.21
Asc to the terms of Jupiter in Aquarius - 2023.11.15
Moon to Canopus - 2024.01.14
Saturn to his own square - 2024.03.30
Mars to the square of the Moon (converse motion) - 2024.04.01
Saturn to the parallel of the Moon in the zodiac - 2024.05.12
Sun to the parallel of Mars in the zodiac - 2024.10.04
Sun to the square of Mercury (converse motion) - 2024.10.10
Saturn to the terms of Mercury in Leo - 2024.11.06
Sun to the terms of Mars in Capricorn - 2025.03.08

I have used Saturn as a co-significator for honor and advancement as I believe that, ironically enough, for Joe Biden, Saturn signifies his Presidency as he has become a President after multiple attempts only after reaching an advanced age; the last aspectual direction to the MC prior to his election was the opposition of Saturn on 2016.02.10; Saturn was the profected lord of the MC for 2019-2020; at the New Moon prior to birth, Saturn ruled both luminaries and Mercury by exaltation; and finally, and in my opinion most stunningly Saturn by secondary direction went direct 78 days after birth, exactly corresponding to the year of age when he was sworn into office. Of course on a lighter note, another piece of evidence would be him tripping all the time. Saturn is very much involved there .

Mars, while ruler of both of the luminaries in the nativity, has actually corresponded to loss of honor for Biden rather than its gain. The Midheaven to body of Mars (in mundo and in the zodiac) was the chief direction which not only afflicted him with the brain aneurysm but caused his loss in the election and scandal due to a plagiarism controversy. However, we may note that as per the rule of Ptolemy, Mars is Biden's hyleg as he is the almuten of both the Asc and the Sun at birth. During this year, Mars is directed to the square of the Moon could cause some health issues, along with the very evil directions of the sun. However, I do not believe that any of these directions will be fatal, and that the killing train of directions will occur in 2028-2029. Let us take a look at the revolutionary figure for the year and the profections.

2) Profection and 3) Solar Revolutions

The sign of the profected Asc is vacant in the revolution, but it is notable that the Ascendant is on the terms of directed Saturn. Revolutionary Moon is conjunct the terms of the directed Asc and opposed to the terms of directed Saturn. Revolutionary Jupiter is in trine to the terms of directed Saturn from Saturn's fall. The Sun is lord of the year, cadent, and is found in a partile conjunction with Mars, in his sign and terms, as well as natal Venus, all three being in sextile to the terms of directed Mars and all having just separated from the trine of natal Jupiter. Revolutionary Mars is also in the parallel of natal Saturn, which was retrograde at the time as well as in Mars' detriment. For the monthly profection, the month of the election corresponds to the 13th division, making the Sun lord of that month. But before that, let us take a look beginning of the division prior, corresponding to 2024.09.24:

As we can see the Moon, lady of the month, is heading towards a conjunction of Mars which will take place in the very same terms as that of the directed Moon. Monthly Saturn is in opposition to the terms of directed Saturn. Monthly Jupiter is in opposition of the directed MC. Now for the chart of the final monthly profection and that of the election for 2024.10.22:

The Sun, Lord of the Month and Year, in fall, has just separated from the square of Mars which is also in Fall, and non-received by Mars from his Detriment (note: this date occurs very near the completion of the Sun’s direction to the zodiacal parallel of Mars). The Sun then dynamically moves towards Mercury in time for the direction to its square. Mercury will go retrograde on Nov 26th, making an inferior conjunction on Dec 6th very near the terms of the directed MC. Mars also stations retrograde in the world on Dec 6th. Jupiter still opposes the terms of directed MC but has now gone retrograde. Saturn itself will not go direct until after the election on Nov. 16. Speaking of Saturn, between the last monthly profection and this one, it has now retrogressed into the terms of the directed Asc

4) Secondary Directions

Here is the chart of the secondary direction:

Venus is in the terms of the directed Ascendant and opposed to the terms of directed Saturn. Jupiter is conjunct the terms of the directed Moon with Mars in opposition. The secondary Sun has left its own directed terms to enter the terms it will come to next year. Secondary Mercury is conjunct the terms of directed Mars. Secondary Mercury is also in parallel to secondary Saturn and natal Sun and natal Venus. The Secondary Moon and Sun are in trine and sextile respectively to the terms of the directed MC

Note: The Moon is conjunct the degree of the total solar eclipse in April

5) Progression
DOB: 20/11/1942 at 8:47:20
81 years x 27.321661 days/sidereal month = 2213.054541 days = December 11th 1948 at 9:06

Here is the chart of the process:

Both the Sun and Mercury are making an active ingress onto the terms of the directed MC. Saturn is in detriment, conjunct its own directed terms; it also opposes the terms of the directed Asc. Mars yet again opposes the terms of the directed Moon. Process Venus is in parallel to natal Mars, and process Mars and Mercury are also in parallel. The progressed Moon is also very close in longitude to the secondary directed Moon.

Note: The Moon is conjunct the degree of the total solar eclipse in April

6) Transits

Finally, this is the chart of the date of the election 05/11/2024 at Washington D.C., at 12:00
Saturn, Biden's significator is retrograde on the terms of the directed Asc and also directly opposed to its own directed terms. Venus is on the terms of the directed MC in Fall. The transit Sun is conjunct natal Mars; Natal Jupiter parallels Transit Mars. Transit Jupiter trines the terms of the directed Sun. Transit Mars squares natal Moon. The New Moon prior to the election happens November 1st, in 15 Libra conjunct natal Mars.

Verdict
What we see constantly from all these techniques are:

• Saturn and the Ascendant in constant contact but from retrogradation

• Contacts between the Sun/Moon and Mars, in a Sun year

• Jupiter and Venus are either weak or averse rendering no assistance

My prediction is that Biden fails to become President, either losing the election due to scandal or becoming ill midway through the year with an eye/brain injury prompting his exit from the race

=======================================================

Feel free to disagree with me on how I've interpreted this. I will try to come back and add to this post if I change my mind or wish to determine the exact date of the illness/exit

Thanks for your analysis Gemato,

Courageous from you at this stage of the race!
One thing worth mentioning about Biden is that his natal Saturn turned Direct on the year he became President.
Direct but slow in motion.
A lifelong example of 'waiting for his hour' with Saturn.

Appreciate your analysis,
Ouranos
.

Ouranos wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:17 am Thanks for your analysis Gemato,

Courageous from you at this stage of the race!
One thing worth mentioning about Biden is that his natal Saturn turned Direct on the year he became President.
Direct but slow in motion.
A lifelong example of 'waiting for his hour' with Saturn.

Appreciate your analysis,
Ouranos
.

No problem, I am more than willing to be proven dead wrong

re: Saturn, yes I have noted that and it further demonstrates that the second station before going direct is in fact one of the most (if not the most) powerful portions of a planet’s motion where it shows its effects most spectacularly

And from your analysis, do you see who could replace Biden?
Right now, it seems that the Americans are stalled with a repetition of the last election.

Ouranos wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:06 am And from your analysis, do you see who could replace Biden?
Right now, it seems that the Americans are stalled with a repetition of the last election.

I don't know but I hope by the end of this investigation I can find out.

Vernal Ingress and Biden's Illness

See the chart for the Vernal Equinox 2024 (March 20th) below, for Washington DC

We see that the Sun (natural ruler of the "King") is adrift, almost cadent, separated from the trine of the Moon but can still see it atleast. The Moon is conjunct the Praesepe of Cancer, a star cluster traditionally associated with eye disease.

Most concerning, the ruler of the MC at the time of the ingress is conjunct Saturn in the terms of the directed Asc. We need only advance the chart by two days to March 24, 2024 to make the conjunction partile:

The transit moon also widely opposes the conjunction, but directly opposes transit Mars. She is also in zodiacal parallel to Jupiter.

Note: this is roughly within a week of the direction of Saturn to his own square and a couple of days after that, of Mars (hyleg) to the square of the Moon.

Verdict: his illness will set in April 2024

I will be returning to the Vernal Ingress chart where appropriate when looking at the other candidates

hey gemato!

rhymes with tomato??

thanks for your thorough posts and commentary on all this! i see that you have tried to rectify bidens chart because you too are not confident on the time!!
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Biden,_Joe

unfortunately if you rectification is wrong, what happens? you could still guess right!! this is why i am reluctant to take a stab at this.. i am reminded of the election with hilary clinton and trump where many were uncertain of her birth time, only to find out later it was something different then what they surmised in making their prediction..

but, i wanted to comment on the use of the terms and etc.. in martin ganstens book'annual predictive techniques', martin relies fairly heavily on this predictive tool and it appears you do as well... in other sections of the astrology forum i see a few others relying on or using this particular tool as well - jason recently in the response to zosma's post on the pope and perhaps jane as well in her work in the traditional astrology section..

this interests me because just like the sidereal zodiac will appear very different then the tropical - a profected ascendant in libra, can be virgo via sidereal - different rulers and different conclusions - so too are the conclusions off the terms if they are done in sidereal verses tropical..

now i realize the folks who use terms must believe strongly enough in them to want to use them, but i like many others are mystified at the basis for them, not to mention how they are being used completely differently as a consequence of the question of which zodiac to use... i come to the conclusion to not use them!!

as for the profection lord rulership - same deal, but i am still attached to using profections if for no other reason that i really liked the system that abu masher was advocating for in the ben dykes translation 'on solar revolutions' - persian nativities 111 where the lord of the profection for the year is emphasized when considering the solar return in question... of course one will come to different conclusions again based off the zodiac they are using, but i do like this system that abu mashar was apparently using many years ago.

i haven't gone down the traditional astrology rabbit hole that far and my explorations haven't included embracing some of the concepts that others use... i was into the aries or vernal ingress idea back when i was doing tropical zodiac, but have let that lapse since working with sidereal..

i was curious about the progression rate you shared earlier - 81 years x 27.321661 days/sidereal month = 2213.054541 days .. isn't there a name for that? i think it might be called minor progressions by some, but i am not sure.. perhaps you could clarify this for me... thanks again for sharing your work.. i like how organized you were in doing all this!

here is a global times ed/op from a day or two ago that discusses the upcoming usa election, among other things.. i liked the op/ed and thought it was quite relevant.. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202401/1305217.shtml

If Biden was killing Trump, could he invoke presidential immunity?
Just saying...

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pm hey gemato!

rhymes with tomato??

If you'd like, the name was just something I picked off the top of my head, plucked very much at random like a tomato

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmthanks for your thorough posts and commentary on all this! i see that you have tried to rectify bidens chart because you too are not confident on the time!!
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Biden,_Joe

unfortunately if you rectification is wrong, what happens? you could still guess right!! this is why i am reluctant to take a stab at this.. i am reminded of the election with hilary clinton and trump where many were uncertain of her birth time, only to find out later it was something different then what they surmised in making their prediction..

Yes it is almost 100% chance that births with :00 or :30 are just rounded so I always try to change it. And if I'm wrong, I don't really mind! I don't practice professionally but if I ever did, I am happy to be wrong as a rhymes-with-tomato on an image board about people who will never know I exist over a potential client in real life. For me, astrology is an intellectual exercise and the only satisfaction comes from making an accurate prediction. You should also never be afraid to be wrong on the internet, if you are, no harm done! It's the only way to learn

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmbut, i wanted to comment on the use of the terms and etc.. in martin ganstens book'annual predictive techniques', martin relies fairly heavily on this predictive tool and it appears you do as well... in other sections of the astrology forum i see a few others relying on or using this particular tool as well - jason recently in the response to zosma's post on the pope and perhaps jane as well in her work in the traditional astrology section..

this interests me because just like the sidereal zodiac will appear very different then the tropical - a profected ascendant in libra, can be virgo via sidereal - different rulers and different conclusions - so too are the conclusions off the terms if they are done in sidereal verses tropical..

now i realize the folks who use terms must believe strongly enough in them to want to use them, but i like many others are mystified at the basis for them, not to mention how they are being used completely differently as a consequence of the question of which zodiac to use... i come to the conclusion to not use them!!

In my opinion, the terms were linked to certain stars which lie within the subdivisions of the zodiac. The "Egyptian" terms were in use just after the creation of the 30 degree zodiac in 5th BC as attested here: https://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/1/. In my opinion, the sidereal zodiac conforms most closely to them and I think they work as a good predictive tool. But I think it of course would be better to actual know why they work for sure, which I am still trying to figure out.

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmas for the profection lord rulership - same deal, but i am still attached to using profections if for no other reason that i really liked the system that abu masher was advocating for in the ben dykes translation 'on solar revolutions' - persian nativities 111 where the lord of the profection for the year is emphasized when considering the solar return in question... of course one will come to different conclusions again based off the zodiac they are using, but i do like this system that abu mashar was apparently using many years ago.

I like it too. It structures the solar revolution nicely and lets you focus on the key indicator for the year

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmi haven't gone down the traditional astrology rabbit hole that far and my explorations haven't included embracing some of the concepts that others use... i was into the aries or vernal ingress idea back when i was doing tropical zodiac, but have let that lapse since working with sidereal..

Even without the tropical zodiac I still think the equinoxes/solstitial ingresses are important and should be noted, just not made the basis of the system (which should always be the stars.)

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmi was curious about the progression rate you shared earlier - 81 years x 27.321661 days/sidereal month = 2213.054541 days .. isn't there a name for that? i think it might be called minor progressions by some, but i am not sure.. perhaps you could clarify this for me... thanks again for sharing your work.. i like how organized you were in doing all this!

I think it's also known as tertiary directions to some people, but I got it from Placidus who called it progressions and used synodic months. But imo, synodic months are calendric and that the returns of the moon to the same star fits in better with a sidereal approach.

james_m wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:23 pmhere is a global times ed/op from a day or two ago that discusses the upcoming usa election, among other things.. i liked the op/ed and thought it was quite relevant.. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202401/1305217.shtml

It was a fun read, although I think "Voldemort of years" may be pushing it a bit

Gemato, thank you very much for your careful and precise work on the USA 2024 election. Another astrologer has stepped out in front with very precise predictions. Western sidereal astrologer Kenneth Bowser has just posted an excellent analysis of a number of charts including Biden's and Trump's solar returns. Ken is a very precise technical astrologer and has reached definite conclusions about the coming election and the aftermath of the swearing in period.

Well worth listening to, and listening again. All charts are clearly illustrated. For students and even professionals we can learn a lot from Ken's presentation of his techniques. Ken uses the Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa, but that ayanamsa is so close to Lahiri and Krishnamurti that the difference is negligible in most cases. https://www.westernsiderealastrology.co ... l-election

Bold assumptions, cautious verification!

My attitude towards predictions is like "watching TV!"

Let's explore how much free will humans really have.

I am delighted to encounter a group of people on this forum who can accompany me in watching TV. Real life is far more exciting than television dramas.

Unfortunately, in a few days, I have to return to China because my husband is concerned about the possibility of war. I don't know when I'll be able to return to Taiwan.

Internet access in China is very inconvenient, and using VPNs without government permission is considered an illegal activity. While ordinary citizens can still use VPNs, it's essential to be discreet and avoid discussing politics.

(This is a characteristic of China—law enforcement may not be strict at times, but it can be severe when investigations are pursued. It's challenging for me because I don't know whether my actions are breaking the law or not.)

I will do my best to stay in touch with everyone because life in China is truly quite dull.

=====

The recent Taiwan presidential election, despite accurate public opinion polls in Taiwan, revealed that the Kuomintang (KMT) and Taiwan People's Party (TPP) had to collaborate to win the election. However, the opposition parties failed to cooperate successfully.

As seen in 2023 Libra ingress horoscope, Uranus in the 4th house indicated a split among opposition forces. And as indicated by Jupiter in the 4th house, the KMT won the majority of legislative seats, becoming the largest party in parliament, but they didn't secure more than half of the seats (52 out of 113).

Additionally, accurate predictions require an understanding of the rules of the real-world game.

My previous prediction about the Turkish election was inaccurate because I had no knowledge of Turkey's voting system, which follows a two-round voting process. With Mercury retrograde, Turkey had two rounds of voting! Eventually, when Mercury finally moved away from combustion, Erdoğan emerged victorious in the presidential election.

France also adopts a two-round voting system.

The rules of the game in the U.S. presidential election are even more intriguing, not based on the overall popular vote!

In 2016, Hillary Clinton's overall popular vote surpassed Trump's, but she lost to the U.S. electoral college system!

I watched Kenneth Bowser's video on the 2024 U.S. presidential election. Although his predictions differ from mine, I find his analysis to be very insightful. And I realize that the inclusion of "aspect in mundo" holds significant importance, because its correspondence to the equatorial system (coordinates). It seems that incorporating both "aspect in mundo" and "aspect in zodiaco" is crucial for a comprehensive understanding of the astrological system.

gemato

thanks for taking the time to articulate all that! without knowing about the actual birth time of biden it is tricky, but i wish you luck regardless..

therese

thanks for drawing my attention to kenneth bowser.. i recall he accurately predicted the last usa election.. the link you provide doesn't work... i would like to read his article, if you care to try to share the link again.. i am unable to find it at his website - https://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/