Hi all,

Would you say that a bodyguard (for a person) would be signified by the 6th, as a person working for you?
Or maybe by the 2nd, just like in court horaries, in which the lawyer (which represents you) is signified by the second?
Or if it's a bodyguard appointed by the state, such as in the case of public officials and so, would that make it a 3d house thing (6th from the 10th)?

What do you think?

Hello Dima Gur,

The concept of bodyguard seems to be a matter of relationship between the planets.
But if I was to assign it to a House, I would say the 6th.

In her article 'Hellenistic spear-bearers in the chart of Bernie Sanders', Demetra George explains the technique.
'The Hellenistic technique called doryphory, which translates as “spear-bearing bodyguards,” was used to identify notable nativities. It was based on the image of eminent figures accompanied and protected by a front line of spear-bearing body guards who preceded them and a rear guard of attendants who followed them in an entourage. The presence of doryphories in the chart signaled the birth of a royal personage.'

And she distinguishes 3 types of bodyguards (spear-bearers)
https://demetra-george.com/blog/bernie- ... ar-bearer/
Type One bodyguard is if a planet is angular in its own domicile and another planet in its own domicile casts a ray in the degrees preceding it. In this hypothetical version of Bernie’s chart, angular Mars at 23° Aries in its own sign of rulership is protected by Venus in her own sign of rulership, who casts a ray to 21° Libra just ahead of Mars.

Type Two bodyguard is when the Sun or Moon, in any zodiacal sign, is located in the 1st or 10th house, and a planet of the sect of the chart hurls a backward ray into the degrees ahead of the Sun or the degrees behind the Moon. (Think of primary diurnal motion in order to identify “ahead” and “behind”). Venus’ backward ray hurled to 21° Aries falls just behind the Moon at 14° Aries. In this case it is the angular Moon that is worthy of being guarded.

Type Three bodyguard is any planet in the 1st or 10th – in any sign – that is guarded bodily by proximity to a planet of the sect of the chart. This planet must be preceding diurnal planets or following nocturnal planets; and in the case of the Moon, within 7 degrees or in the same sign. Mars, belonging to the sect of the chart stands behind the Moon and is her attendant and protector.
----------------
Danièle Jay in her article 'Dignités et Honneurs' explains the concept from a book of Johann Gargaeus le Jeune (1530-1574), Astrologiae Methodus, Bale 1570 and translated by Lucia Bellizia who was kind enough to communicate a few excerpts.
Danièle Jay analyzes 3 charts: Queen Victoria, Jeanne Calment and Simone Veil.
https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=122103

Be well,
Ouranos

Ouranos hi,

I'm familiar with the concept of Doryphory / spear bearing, but it wasn't what I referred to.
Just which house would you say signify bodyguards , from how we are familiar with them in our modern world.
This house signification thing, usually goes with horary astrology, hence why I posted here.

I was thinking about the case of Indira Gandhi, who was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gandhi,_Indira

Hello Dima Gur,

My take:
At the house level:
6th house: yes, as it is the house of "servant"
3rd house (being 6th from 10th): yes, being "servant" of the Ruling Government
2nd house: No.

At the universal (planet) level:
Saturn: as it is associated with "security", "safety" and "boundaries"

Hence, it would be Saturn or ruler of 6th or ruler of 3rd. This is where we need to "let the chart speaks".

There is ONE more that needs consideration: the inverse dispositor (for lack of a better term) of the predominator (ruler of nativity):
Say Sun is in Cancer: Moon is the dispositor of Sun but Sun is "inverse dispositor" of Moon.

Using Indira Gandhi's chart:
Chart is Nocturnal - hence, luminary of the sect = moon, but moon is cadent. Hence, she cannot be predominator. We move to Sun (luminary not of the sect) and it is angular AND it is ruler of ascendant. We could comfortably use Sun as predominator. Who is in the sign of sun namely Leo (the so called inverse dispositor)? That is Saturn as Sun is dispositor of Saturn, so Saturn is inverse dispositor of Sun. Dispositor = sort of your superior, inverse dispositor = sort of your subordinate. So, Saturn = the "subordinate" who is close to the native (as Saturn close to ascendant albeit detriment!), who is also universal significator of security, and is also ruler of the 6th by domicile, and is also ruler of the 6th of 10th (the 3rd) by exaltation. Saturn = security/personal guard.

Saturn is also ruler of the 7th by domicile. 7th house is correlated to the end of life (even death by some astrologers) as well as contentions (and open enemies by some medieval astrologers), in the first, detriment oppose the modern planet Uranus... overcome Sun (predominator of chart), while Saturn being malefic (Saturn in night chart).....make your own conclusion of that!

it is interesting to note that Saturn at 14 Leo cast square aspect to 14 Sco and this earlier degree from the angular Sun (26 Sco), making it a doryphory/speabearer of the Sun (by some astrologers)....well...

Astrojin, What a tour de force! Wow!!

Inverse dispositor, first time I'm hearing about it, but it makes total sense.
What is the source of this concept? Or where or by whom it was used?

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything, except for my hunch tells me that as a universal significator for a bodyguard, Mars may be a better fit than Saturn.

I never knew one could use the predominator/hyleg in such a way.
The only thing I do with it is calculate length of life
Was this done as well by traditional authorities, or is it borrowed from Vedic Astrology?

Saturn in Indira's chart is also in the 12th (secret enemies) and cnj Neptune (it's about religion).

Thank you.

Hello again!

Inverse dispositor, first time I'm hearing about it, but it makes total sense.
What is the source of this concept? Or where or by whom it was used?

My practice of astrology has always been top-down approach i.e. starting from some form of astro-logical framework consistent with the current Hellenistic-Medieval astrology. If I can't find any direct answer from the current framework, I will then try to expand the current framework by analogy (which I believe is the basis of astrology) and see where the astro-logic excursion brings me...
I find the use of dispositor by some astrologers is consistent with my experience/practice (e.g. Frawley who uses it as some kind of "ruling over", for instance he says that if significator of disease disposits significator of treatment then, the disease wins and vice versa or some Hellenistic astrologers who hinted at the use of dispositor of a significator when significator cannot rule for whatever reason i.e. dispositor takes over as significator, or Brady who uses/used dispositors as "Big Brother" who takes over some function of the significator if significator has no aspect to the relevant signification, and .........). So, using astro-logic and analogy, the reverse should be applicable i.e. the "inverse dispositor" should be the one ruled over, sub, or similar function...

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything, except for my hunch tells me that as a universal significator for a bodyguard, Mars may be a better fit than Saturn.

Saturn is the last planet in the Chaldean order and hence, he is the boundary and also signifies the one who sets the boundary (e.g. Saturn used as significator of skin and bones, skin being the outer boundary and bones the inner boundary) . Saturn being the most sluggish is connected with the "heavy" things or making things heavy (Saturn as significator of the metal lead, Saturn making things such as air cold and heavy... bla bla). So, by analogy, Saturn is the one who sets the boundary (security/safety) making it very difficult and "heavy" for others to come into contact or penetrate...

Mars is the universal significator of armed forces but in the case of personal security, I would rather take Saturn because of the reasons above and also:
* Mars (as all nocturnal planets) is a public planet. So, the signified entity by Mars such as armed forces is to protect the public not the individual. Saturn (as all diurnal planets) is a selective/personal planet which is more connected to selective individuals.
* The mode of Mars is offensive (I protect by destroying my enemies) whereas the mode of Saturn is defensive (I protect myself by creating an un-penetrable shield against my enemies).

cheerio...!

The inverse dispositor idea is stroke of genius.
This idea is simple, applicable and makes perfect sense in many scenarios.
I'm truly impressed.

I still think that Mars is a better fit for bodyguards.
Exactly because Mars is nocturnal, it would be relating more to the private sphere (personal bodyguards) than the public sphere (Saturn which is diurnal).
Plus the bodyguard has to physically defend the person, or neutralize an assailant when necessary. He would have to use force (Mars).
The boundaries idea is correct of course, but doesn't seem like a good fit in the case of bodyguards.

By the way,
Astrojin, why did you use the hyleg in the Indira Gandhi example, instead of the ruler of the ascendant?
Just because the hyleg has to do with your length of life / essence of life, while the ruler of the ascendant may be too general in such cases (life dangers)?

Thanks.

Hello yet again...
The association of nocturnal planets (Mars being one of them) to the public sphere and diurnal planets (Saturn being one of them) to the private/individual sphere actually comes from Robert Schmidt when he discussed the planetary sects in one of his lectures. This is why (he claimed) that Moon being Queen of the nocturnals is simply the public and the commoners (principle of inclusion) and the King of the diurnals (Sun) is the one who "selects" (principle of selection). He also quoted from Valens that Mars is associated with public prostitution and while both Mars and Saturn are malefics, Mars made his malevolence known to the public whereas Saturn is the malefic lurking in the dark and makes his malevolence selective and more individual. I have found that this somehow fit in my practice though I cannot say this is absolute of course.

Astrojin, why did you use the hyleg in the Indira Gandhi example, instead of the ruler of the ascendant?

The framework originated from Valens...The most personal point in a chart is basically one of the Big Three (Sun, Moon and Ascendant) whichever voice is the loudest becomes the one that I use. In Indira's chart, it just so happen that the ruler of ascendant is also Sun, hence, I chose Sun.

God blessed...

Hmm,

The reason Mars was allocated to the nocturnals was because it is too hot and Saturn to diurnals, because he's too cold.
Maybe that can be used as a justifying principle ('Saturn lurking in the dark' and all).

That's an interesting thought, but guess I'll still go with my original thinking

The reason Mars was allocated to the nocturnals was because it is too hot and Saturn to diurnals, because he's too cold.

... Ptolemy!!