How would you describe the same zodiac sign
if it was on the AC or the Sun?
Two prime examples: Sagittarius and Capricorn.
Or whatever suits you the best.

Jakob wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 11:25 am How would you describe the same zodiac sign
if it was on the AC or the Sun?
Two prime examples: Sagittarius and Capricorn.
Or whatever suits you the best.

The question comes to mind because when it comes to the zodiac signs, where I know people with a sun and those with an ascendant, I notice that both are very, very different.

My mother was Taurus sun and Libra ascendant. My father was a Libra sun and a Scorpio ascendant.
My mother was after consensus, my father was after sentimentality.

I don't think it makes much sense to conflate Ascendant and Sun.

The Ascendant or Rising degree is the intersection of the ecliptic/zodiac with the eastern horizon.
It is often said that the AC degree is the most important factor in any horoscope cast for a specific location on earth. However, in charts cast within the polar zone (latitudes 66,5°+) some parts of the ecliptic can't rise/set, and the AC/DC axis behaves "erratically". In these regions, the AC/DC is generally less useful than the MC/IC axis and should be ignored for the house system. It is advisable to either use MC Equal, MC Whole Sign, Meridian houses or Azimuth houses within the polar zone.

The Sun is the brightest celestial object viewed from Earth and also the basis of the ecliptic. The Sun is thus the single most important factor in astrology and the highest up in the hierarchy ("king of the universe"), followed by the Moon, and then the other planets which travel within the zodiac band, in proximity to the ecliptic. Fixed stars are also judged in a similar way; for example Regulus the Alpha star in Leo is regarded as the most powerful star in astrology because it's both quite bright and very close to the ecliptic. Sirius is the brightest, but far away from the ecliptic.

Astrophilus

that is an interesting perspective with regard to the polar zone and working with charts in this area.. have you had much experience working with charts in this way? thanks..

The astronomical difference between the ascendant and the sun was already reasonably clear to me. But the question I was concerned with here is an astrological one. How do you tell from a person whether he is a Scorpio ascendant or has a Sun in Scorpio. How could you describe the striking difference? (I work with a Google Translate)

james_m wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 4:37 pm Astrophilus

that is an interesting perspective with regard to the polar zone and working with charts in this area.. have you had much experience working with charts in this way? thanks..

Unfortunately I don't have practical experience with interpreting polar zone charts - only dealt with the problem from a theoretical point of view and read a few opinions on the internet. Ruud66 might be more experienced on the topic.

Jakob wrote: The astronomical difference between the ascendant and the sun was already reasonably clear to me. But the question I was concerned with here is an astrological one. How do you tell from a person whether he is a Scorpio ascendant or has a Sun in Scorpio. How could you describe the striking difference? (I work with a Google Translate)

I don't know if any striking difference in looks or character could be attributed specifically to one or two factors in the birth chart.
To be honest, I don't see the point in studying the birth chart to predict or confirm the native's appearance and behaviour, as these are mostly determined by genetics and sociology anyway.

Non-astrological factors such as biological gender, ethnicity and social class tell us more about how a person will (probably) look and behave like than anything in the birth chart. However, you usually can't tell that the person's mother died at age 19 or that he/she married at age 27 just from looking at the person or knowing their background. You'd need natal astrology for the timing of specific life events.

Astrophilus

thank you... maybe rudd66 will chime in..

Jakob wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 5:00 pm The astronomical difference between the ascendant and the sun was already reasonably clear to me. But the question I was concerned with here is an astrological one. How do you tell from a person whether he is a Scorpio ascendant or has a Sun in Scorpio. How could you describe the striking difference? (I work with a Google Translate)

jakob,

i missed this quote from you.. it sounds like you want to understand the difference between the ascendant and sun on some level.. the ascendant is a sensitive point which orients the whole chart accordingly... the sun is the spiritual focus of one's life path and purpose.. they are different.. i can tell you from experience... describing it is another matter... of course these important features of the chart are modified by all the other planets, and especially by the moon... thus we have very different examples where it is no easy task to define specifics... the result - generalizations for both sun and ascendant is all you are going to get!

in reference to your earlier example - often times i find a real compatibility between people who have the same sun verses rising sign or vice versa as you gave an example with your mom -libra ascendant and father - libra sun... and they are also complimented with mom - sun in taurus and dad - scorpio rising.. also in terms of compatibility, people sharing the same sun signs, i often see this and same with people who share the same rising signs... there are obvious similarities when either the sun or ascendant are in the same sign, but it overlooks the importance of the sun as very important consideration ( or the ascendant) in a stand alone way...

you might not like astrology cookbooks, but it might be a good place to start in seeing the differences, short of you finding out the birth details of people who are close to you and trying to understand it firsthand...

using the tropical zodiac, i am scorpio rising, sun in aries and scorpio moon... just using these 3 ingredients, i know there are huge differences between someone who is scorpio sun verses scorpio rising... i am married to a scorpio sun person.. my father was scorpio sun and i have a lot of close scorpio sun friends... by having scorpio rising, i definitely do not share the same focus as these people, although there is a lot of compatibility i have with them.. i find it easiest to interact with tropical water signs, which might be explained more by my moon more then anything else..

perhaps i can go into this further... i tend to be more confrontational and love challenging people... this i attribute to sun in aries... sun in scorpios are much more subtle and generally don't even bother... so while i have scorpio rising - i am expressing it differently thanks these other features in my chart - sun in aries and moon in scorpio... another thing - scorpio sun are just a lot more subtle, selective and generally more perceptive of where the dynamics will lead them... i am on the other hand - jump first and think about it later... yes, i am scorpio rising, but it is modified considerably by my sun in aries and all the other factors in my chart... for the record my wife is scorpio sun and ascendant and goes about life in a much more refined manner then me! maybe that is partly because she is a women, but now i am going to get accused of really stereotyping in a way that is getting further removed from your question on the differences between the ascendant and the sun when it is the same sign... of course the sex of a chart matters too - i personally think.. just as i think it matters whether the chart is nocturnal verses diurnal and etc. etc. etc..

I use a translation program from Google again. Excuse me, therefore, if not all words sound pretty.

Hello and thank you for your detailed answers. I studied philosophy in the second subject, even if only until the intermediate exam halfway through my studies. Maybe that's why I face things the way I do. What is typical, essential about Sagittarius Ascendant and what is essential and typical about Sagittarius Sun?

I started astrology when Uranus was just on my ascendant in the sign of Sagittarius. That was at the turn of the year 1983/84. I asked myself whether it was worth investing time in this topic. That's why my first questions were: Is there anything to astrology? How can I answer this question reasonably objectively?

My first thesis was this: Everything that exists must be perceptible in some way. With regard to astrology, it must therefore be the case that one must be able to perceive the horoscope of the other person in him, even if one does not know it.

A year later, I had a job in a tourist hotel and therefore did a lot of check-ins from guests every day. The guest had to hand over his passport to me and I entered all the data in the book. This allowed me to find out from each guest when his birthday is and thus also in which sun sign he was born.

I tested whether I could develop a feeling for which sun sign the hotel guest was born in. With a lot of practice and a lot of experience. The guest entered the hotel, I saw him and noticed him in other ways, talked to him briefly and then made my decision after 2 minutes at the latest. Sometimes I thought of two signs. Finally, I checked my choice when handing over the passport.

After about 4 months, my hit rate was about 60-70%. Statistically, it should have been about 1:12 = 8.5%. However, that was almost 40 years ago. I don't have that practice anymore today.


I am in the sun sign Pisces and have the Moon in Scorpio in an exact trine to each other with an orb of only 5 arc minutes. It is said that pisces are particularly sensitive to the supernatural. But I think I just took the opportunity to answer my question.

Interestingly, my sister and I now have the same ascendant in the same degree, i.e. we were born at the same sidereal time. My last partner as well and my last, short affair as well and also a man I met last year. We became friends. All are born shortly after half past one stardate and have an ascendant of about 12 degrees Sagittarius. Like me.

Now, what is the essence of all these people who have the same AC to practically the same degree as me? What is different from the sun sign Sagittarius?

jakob

thanks for the greater detail here from you... i added to my comment at the end in a way where i tried to answer you specifically via my own personal examples... hopefully you saw that... but in answer to your question - what is the difference between a sag sun and a sag rising, i think the sag sun will show the characteristics of the sun much more clearly then sag rising.. the reason i say this is the rising sign is going to work with the sun sign which may be different.. of course this works in reverse too so, even with a person who is sun in sag ( by brother ) it gets modified by the rising sign.. when you consider just these 2 elements of the chart - sun and rising sign - you can have some that are more clearly fluid with each other and some that aren't... first impressions are usually gotten off the rising sign, but maybe others see it differently.. and we are leaving out what i consider a most important consideration - the moon.. if i was to say what is even more important then the sun and rising sign - it is the moon.. but i am biased this way... sun in sag is a fairly freewheeling and spontaneous energy... it might be similar with sag rising, but would be modified by how the rest of the chart connects to the ascendant/rising sign...

you question is a hard one to answer.. i will acknowledge that!! how do you think your sun modifies your rising sign sag? and what about your moon? i am sure that modifies the sag rising even further... i guess you've pondered this over the years, but this is sort of where i go to when i am trying to understand astrology.. i start with myself and work out from their.. this is very subjective of course, but it must be the starting point for all of us...

Hi James, in the first half of my life I thought I was an idiot and the world thought I was a genius. In the second half of my life, it's the other way around. Good night and have many thanks for our conversation
Jakob

thanks jakob

lets continue the conversation and hopefully others will offer their astrological thoughts here..