Datura22 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:26 pm HI there guys,

Quick question: which would you say is the house and its ruler to use in an horary chart for a missing person?

I know in forensic astrology, it would be the ruler of the Asc; and that in forensic, the 7th house cusp is used for the suspect/abductor etc. However, in John Frawley's book on Horary Astrology,, he says, use the 7th house ruler for a 'random' missing person that the astrologer asking the question don't know; (whilst using the turned chart for relatives of a client asking the question etc).

thanks

Calli wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:46 am For events, i believe in using everything at my disposal!

If you are asking about Dr Mosley in this instance, then i used asc, 7th and every which way… with the massive five planet combustion on one hand and the mars aries chiron indicating heating or head trauma of some sort like dehydration, confusion…. Given neptune hovering on 7th meaning that is what is facing him…. Plus intercepted rulers…. Not giving him access to anything…its rather dire circumstances.

a purple umbrella should stand out amongst rocks. And thats all there is there…scrub and rocks…rocks reflecting heat. Purple is jupiter but combust…so hidden.

Very interesting also that a duplicate person with exact clothes was seen wandering around. In a tiny island with about 100 people about…what are the real odds? I am the suspicious sort and feel this was a decoy.

I fear given the location of the island that something else has happened. People have gone missing before and even if bodynis found because of high interest from press, in sudden pop up, the story always sounds odd.

On the cctv he was hunched up, hurrying…. That umbrella was transferring heat. I know because I use one but I either use a very large umbrella and keep it high and critically have wet my hair and wear a wet hat or I use an umbrella with a fan if its a short walk about town. But let me tell you a half hour walk exhausts me and i use every bit of shade to my advantage. I have also been known to wet my clothes if i see need! 39c is drastic. Its not for long walks with no shelter. And he didnt even have water!

Below chart is 15 minutes after last cctv. I progressed to see what was happening when signs changed. It indicates he was still amongst people at that stage but had become inaccessible and ruled by mercury…combust to sun that was ruled by 11 house ie stranger….could be a car involved?

With neptune so string and facing him minutes, i suspect sun stroke, dehydration, confusion was a major element.

Jason wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 8:11 am

Datura22 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:26 pm HI there guys,

Quick question: which would you say is the house and its ruler to use in an horary chart for a missing person?

I know in forensic astrology, it would be the ruler of the Asc; and that in forensic, the 7th house cusp is used for the suspect/abductor etc. However, in John Frawley's book on Horary Astrology,, he says, use the 7th house ruler for a 'random' missing person that the astrologer asking the question don't know; (whilst using the turned chart for relatives of a client asking the question etc).

thanks

Hi Datura,

On (manuscript) p. 151 of Christian Astrology, Lilly instructs:
If a question be demanded of one absent in a general way, and the querent has no relation to the party; then the first house, the Lord of that House and the Moon shall signify the absent party.


You could also check out The Book of the Nine Judges. It contains a chapter on Absent People with multiple authors' passages on the topic instructing to use the eastern lord (ASC) as the key to these judgments.

Calli wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:46 am For events, i believe in using everything at my disposal!

If you are asking about Dr Mosley in this instance, then i used asc, 7th and every which way… with the massive five planet combustion on one hand and the mars aries chiron indicating heating or head trauma of some sort like dehydration, confusion…. Given neptune hovering on 7th meaning that is what is facing him…. Plus intercepted rulers…. Not giving him access to anything…its rather dire circumstances.

a purple umbrella should stand out amongst rocks. And thats all there is there…scrub and rocks…rocks reflecting heat. Purple is jupiter but combust…so hidden.

Very interesting also that a duplicate person with exact clothes was seen wandering around. In a tiny island with about 100 people about…what are the real odds? I am the suspicious sort and feel this was a decoy.

I fear given the location of the island that something else has happened. People have gone missing before and even if bodynis found because of high interest from press, in sudden pop up, the story always sounds odd.

On the cctv he was hunched up, hurrying…. That umbrella was transferring heat. I know because I use one but I either use a very large umbrella and keep it high and critically have wet my hair and wear a wet hat or I use an umbrella with a fan if its a short walk about town. But let me tell you a half hour walk exhausts me and i use every bit of shade to my advantage. I have also been known to wet my clothes if i see need! 39c is drastic. Its not for long walks with no shelter. And he didnt even have water!

Below chart is 15 minutes after last cctv. I progressed to see what was happening when signs changed. It indicates he was still amongst people at that stage but had become inaccessible and ruled by mercury…combust to sun that was ruled by 11 house ie stranger….could be a car involved?

With neptune so string and facing him minutes, i suspect sun stroke, dehydration, confusion was a major element.

Dr MM chart.png Viewed 1699 times 363.98 KiB

Ouranos wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 4:02 pm From a transcript of The Astrology Podcast #145, Chris Brennan and Levente Laszlo are discussing the origins of Horary Astrology.

Chris Brennan says "events and elections were both subsumed in the Hellenistic tradition under the broad category of inceptional astrology or katarchic astrology, from the Greek word katarche, which just means ‘beginning’ or ‘inception’. And it was about casting a chart for the moment that an event or a venture begins, under the premise that it will describe the outcome and the future of whatever is initiated at that time."
Levente observes that Ben Dykes in his introduction to translation of Hephaistio's third book paraphrasing Dorotheus... there are 3 possible times for casting a chart:
1) The first thing, and this may be the best scenario, is the time of an event. An inception or beginning of something.
2) When we hear about an event, provided we know when it happened.
3) The thirs-best scenario is when someone wants to consult about this with the astrologer.
Adding that in the Dorotheus text we can see all three possibilities.

Here is my approach and I am not saying that this is a definite and final stand. I leave it opened for discussion.
In the first scenario, the missing person would be ruled by the ASC. It is an inception chart like when you leave for a trip or start something new.
In the second and third scenario, the missing person would be ruled by the 7th House.
In this case it is important to determine the relationship with the missing person, for then you would turn the chart or assign this person the 7th House if unknown to you.

I had a personal case of a missing person indirectly connected with me and when I looked up at the ASC/DSC axis, the 7th House was best describing the person physically.

Alphee Lavoie who has worked with the FBI in cases of missing persons said in a podcast (sorry can't remember the link, it was an interview where he talked about his life as a Horary practitioner) that his results improved when he started using the first call to the police or Amber Alert and the location where it was aired. This refers to the 1st scenario.
He also uses a Local Space Chart to help find the missing person.

In the discussion with Chris Brennan, Levente also says that "from Dorotheus are so strange because they almost focus exclusively on the four angular houses using this concept that the 1st house or the Ascendant represents the one who initiates the action, the 7th house or the Descendant, the sign around the setting or the area around the setting horizon represents the person receiving the action, the Midheaven or the 10th house represents the action itself, and then the 4th house or the IC represents the outcome or the result of the action."
Which is another approach.
Looking at a missing person, when his ruler is found Angular, he is there or where he is suppose to be but when his ruler is Succedent or Cadent, he is somewhere else and you have to dig deeper.

One thing that striked me when I looked up at your chart is the fact that many planets and Angles are late or early in the signs and on the cusps of Houses leaving the impression that this person was moved or brought somewhere else.
If we take this person to be ruled by VE (ASC) conjunct and Cazimi with the SU L11, he is with friends where he/she is suppose to be but hiding and protected.
If we take the 7th House, we have NE on the cusp and JU L7 in detriment in the 9th with the MO applying to it.
Which one best describe the missing person?