Edited 12 August; Updated from my previous post. This is the latest Eshleman post.

Jim is a western (Fagan/Bradley) sidereal astrologer.

To build a timeline, here are what must be my final conclusions:
Trump's charts are bad to the point where it seems he cannot win the election and become president. His life will be disrupted and put on a totally different path. He may also be the source of extreme disruption or even incited violence. He may still find himself imprisoned before his birthday year is over. In general, there is the usual disruptive chaos that always whirls around Trump, perhaps compounded by violence. It is difficult to see him being inaugurated president next January 20.
On Election Night and immediately after, Trump will be certain he won and will celebrate accordingly. (Probably the rest of us also think he won.)
Ballot counting will likely continue at least a week and a half. It seems November 16-17 is a pivotal date. Key details remain unknown or extremely uncertain for weeks.
It seems more likely than not that Harris will have won, especially if she is in Washington on the morning of October 21.
Trump, if in Washington for the inauguration, is extremely miserable. From late December he is broodingly rageful and seeking to cause hurt. His chart shows him as a loser in every important respect except for the SLR covering Election Day, which shows exactly the opposite. January 20 is an especially bad day for him - one of his worst ever - if he's in Washington.
Severe conditions and extreme conflict (if not violence) prevail around the time of the inauguration and especially right after it.
Despite anything else I've said, J.D. Vance's chart looks like he attains high honor on or soon after January 20.
This Super Bowl (so to speak) will go into double overtime.
I predict Kamala Harris will be inaugurated president because Donald Trump is shown to be a loser. (I have low confidence in this prediction because of the multiple contradictions and uncertainties.)
If this were a sports match, I wouldn't advise betting on it either way. All indications EXCEPT the single most powerful individual chart suggest Trump will lose. The strongest technique in the bunch then says otherwise. The same technique then contradicts itself later.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 724#p61724

thanks therese

i get that it is hard to predict elections... what you've encapsulated here is all over the map! maybe i am naive in thinking that one can work with natal solar returns and skip jumping around, as he has done here.. clearly jim is a fan of relocating solar returns and etc. etc.. but ultimately my read on his astrological viewpoint is harris ultimately wins --- nobody wins and then harris wins, lol.. i appreciate you deciphering everything he says here in some type of cogent fashion..

viewing the overall arc of the 2024 usa elections in my own subjective way, it is hard to take any of it seriously... it appears like some type of attempted coronation, with a huge amount of manipulation and brainwashing going on... it doesn't bode well for the usa and i say this no matter who wins...

Thank you for sharing Therese,

What I retain from his analysis

"I think there is a timeline that we don't know. There will be intervening events we don't know about. There are emotional losses showing for every person involved, which may be related to any number of factors such as the actual outcome of the election, the death of the current president, social and political violence erupting, an unrelated natural disaster - even the death of a newly elected president."

One of the problem with predictive astrology is that we are transferring an 'internal' process (how the person lives the event) to an 'external' process (the event).
How many times have we seen a tragic incident (external) where people reporting that it was the most enlightening event in their life (internal). Astrology sees the internal process.
With Donald Trump, if we see his Mars activated, does it mean he is winning or loosing?
Anyway, he is angry all the time.

With Hades/Kronos in Cancer over the natal Sun of Unites States, it is clear that they are going through a rough time (Death and ruin in ruling circles, much ill fate or death by grave events)
And Neptune and Poseidon (a double Neptune) at the Aries Point, misinformations are on the agenda.

"Elon Musk and his social network, known since July 2023 as X, have already been singled out for misinformation that contributed to recent far-right violence in the UK. In a video posted on X, influencer Andrew Tate falsely claimed that the suspect in the Southport stabbing that killed three girls and injured eight other children was an “undocumented migrant” who had “arrived on a boat”.
In the United States, illegal immigration is also one of Elon Musk's obsessions. He has adopted the conspiracy theory that Joe Biden abolished borders to secure new voters for the Democratic Party. Elon Musk is also fond of conspiracy theories about the electoral process. When he is not relaying false information himself, his social network refuses to correct false or misleading allegations on the subject."
https://www.lapresse.ca/elections-ameri ... tielle.php
-----------
Neptune... Poseidon... Neptune... Poseidon

Jim Eshleman has already edited what I posted above, so I'm going to edit that post and replace it with his latest words. Please be sure to read the latest update.

James wrote:

i get that it is hard to predict elections... what you've encapsulated here is all over the map! maybe i am naive in thinking that one can work with natal solar returns and skip jumping around, as he has done here.. clearly jim is a fan of relocating solar returns and etc. etc.. but ultimately my read on his astrological viewpoint is harris ultimately wins --- nobody wins and then harris wins, lol.. i appreciate you deciphering everything he says here in some type of cogent fashion..

James, the words in quotes were from Jim, copied from his web site. At any rate, those numbered statements have been updated by Jim, and updated on my original post as well.

Thank for posting that Therese. It seems Trump's charts are a mess regardless of the zodiac used.

Ouranos wrote:

One of the problems with predictive astrology is that we are transferring an 'internal' process (how the person lives the event) to an 'external' process (the event).
How many times have we seen a tragic incident (external) where people reporting that it was the most enlightening event in their life (internal). Astrology sees the internal process.

Ouranos, this is SUCH an important point for astrologers. How to distinguish between the external and the internal? I think in the original Hellenistic astrology the houses represented the external world. Today many astrologers interpret planets in houses as internal. The astrological chart isn't necessarily all internal. Some astrologers would say the basic natal chart shows only external events. How to figure it all out?? Complicated and detailed research that doesn't sit well with astrologers.

Jane wrote:

Thank for posting that Therese. It seems Trump's charts are a mess regardless of the zodiac used.

But Kenneth Bowser who is of the same Fagan/Bradley school of astrology as Jim Eshelman, has predicted a win for Donald Trump!! Of curse this prediction was made when Biden was still running. Ken's prediction is noted on Mark's list of predictions on the election topic. In his latest article Ken seems to pretty much discount Kamala Harris.

Isn't this strange?? Two astrologers from the same astrological tradition and using many of the same predictive charts and methods are coming up with opposing predictions!!?? Ken Bowser for Trump while Jim Eshelman gives the most promising picture for Kamala Harris. Of course this duality happens in the tropical world as well.

thanks therese

i reference to your revised post at the beginning, do you know what techniques eshelman is referencing in your post towards in the last 2 sentences? thanks..

ouranos

i too share thereses viewpoint on the issue you raise regarding predictions and what is external verses internal and how can we tell the differences? that is how i would paraphrase your valid concerns on the topic of astro predictions..

regarding elon musk, i have been meaning to do a post on him for quite some time, and as coincidence would have it, marjorie orr did a post on him just the other day! here it is - https://star4cast.com/elon-musk-gone-ov ... dark-side/

i am more concerned about the intel agencies - 5 eyes and etc - capturing google, twitter or x, amazon and all the other various social media sites, using it as the newest form of data mining, or surveillance capitalism... the whole concept that a gov't would tell it's citizens what is or isn't ''the truth'' ( via the one true official site@) while it is adopting any number of narratives to suit itself, really ought to disturb people, or anyone opposed to living in a totalitarian state! george orwell is rolling over in his grave...

Thanks for sharing the link James.

Ouranos, this is SUCH an important point for astrologers. How to distinguish between the external and the internal? I think in the original Hellenistic astrology the houses represented the external world. Today many astrologers interpret planets in houses as internal. The astrological chart isn't necessarily all internal. Some astrologers would say the basic natal chart shows only external events. How to figure it all out?? Complicated and detailed research that doesn't sit well with astrologers.

One of the first book I read in astrology was 'De la psychanalyse à l'astrologie' (From psychoanalysis to astrology) by André Barbault.
He has some provoking thoughts about the Golden Age of astrology.

Until we understand how the Ancients used astrology as a subjective and symbolic language our modern and objective view of the world is condemned to immobility. The order of the universe which prevailed in ancient times was not subject to space and time, it was a 'qualitative' order and unfortunately we are trying to recreate it with our modern computers and highly sophisticated calculations.

The explanation proposed by Kepler in the 4th book of his Harmonices Mundi was that the astral influence has its origin in the pre-existence of a relationship of harmony between an external phenomena, the psychic faculty which perceives it and the soul.
Ancient astrology corresponds to the stage of prescience which is that of clairvoyance. Modern astrology which calls itself scientific corresponds to that of science which is related to reason.

If we take an aphorism of Johannes Schoner 'As many planets with which the Sun joins by exact aspects (platic), so many husbands'. Here is an aphorism that the first random chart can deny.
What is important to understand is that the anima of the woman in question will be sensitive to 2 types of animus in her and that these images could possibly merge on a husband presenting 2 different natures. But nothing says that she will necessarily have 2 husbands.

When the ancients relates a symbol to an object, it is essentially the object that exists in the state of representation in the interpreting subject (but also in the interpreted subject), the object that lives in itself (subjective plane) but not the object in the physical world. It is an astrology of an inner reality while the texts suggest that it is an object in the outer reality.

On the other hand, with Morin de Villefranche, it will become be a question of the sole reality of the external object. He will not perceive the subjective and internal reality of the Ancients. He loses sight of the reality of the soul to focus his efforts only on the theater of external facts. For example, the Sun which was the husband for the Ancients will become a brother in the 3rd, a lawyer in the 9th and a boss in the 10th.
We can therefore speak of Morin as one of the first modern astrologers. Which does not deny his excellent approach by the reason.

James wrote:

In reference to your revised post at the beginning, do you know what techniques eshelman is referencing in your post towards in the last 2 sentences? thanks..

James, actually I don't remember without re-reading Jim's posts. These days my memory isn't functioning very well, and Jim has quite a long discussion. I tried the link to Solunars that I posted in my original post, but it doesn't work. I'll see if I can find a better link to Solunars.

Edit: I tried to post this entire link, but Skyscript cuts out the middle part for some reason. Just now this link went through for me, however.

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 724#p61724
Forecasting the 2024 Presidential Election Outcome