Skyscript Astrology Forum

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:46 pm**

Hey guys,

I think I saw it once, in one source or other, but I can't remember which, or whether it's just a figment of my imagination.

I mean in a way which is similar to Lilly's dignity table, in which he lists different conditions for dignity and debility.
I checked Lilly, Schoener and Charles Obert's materials on dignity and debility, but wasn't able to find anything.

Any chance you've seen something like that, or know of a source?

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:59 pm**

John Frawley sees the Full Moon kind of debilitated because it is fulfilled and has nothing to search for.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:25 pm**

i believe it is an arabic thing where the moon close to a full moon - i can't remember the details - 7 degrees before and 7 degrees after - is considered damaged... i am sorry i can't give the source, but i have read this a few times and it is some sort of window on both sides of the full moon - just before and just after - maybe less degrees then the 7 degrees i have suggested, but it is in the literature somewhere..

Posted: **Sun Oct 20, 2024 4:24 pm**

Georgius, you're right.

Frawley writes about the Moon that:

Generally, the more light the Moon has - the closer it is to full — the stronger it is
and so the more able it is to act. It is also stronger if it is increasing in light
(moving from new to full Moon) than ifit is decreasing in light (moving from full
to new). But at full it is weak (see the point on opposition to the Sun, above), so
its optimum position is around separating trine to the Sun: there it has lots of
light and is still increasing. This point is important if the Moon is the planet
whose aspect is showing the event in question.

Also, I've just found it,
In a different section of his Horary Textbook, the one on accidental dignity, Frawley mentions: (p.61, non revised version)

Opposition to the Sun
The area of 8 degrees or so either side of exact opposition to the Sun is also a
place of extreme affliction, not quite so serious as combustion, but not so far
short of it. There is no equivalent of cazimi here.

I wonder what is the source of that information (Opposite the Sun). Could it be Lilly?

---

james_m:

Nice, it's almost what Frawley mentions (8 deg before and after the exact opposition).
I wonder from which source is it...

Posted: **Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:29 pm**

Hi Dima,

Sahl is one source for this, under The Defects of the Moon in James Holden translation of his The Introduction to the Science of the Judgments of the Stars he says:

"The third [defect] is when it is in opposition to the Sun within less that 12 degrees, but it has not yet come to the degree of the opposition." (p24)

Not sure it someone made the point before him.

Hope that's of some help.

Posted: **Sun Oct 20, 2024 8:37 pm**

Jane,
Thanks a bunch!

Found it.
It's page 70 in Dykes' translation of Sahl.
Dykes also references Dorotheus (page 234 in his own translation of Dorotheus) for the same aphorism.

I didn't know that Holden ever translated Sahl, interesting.

--

Problem solved

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:32 pm**

Your welcome. Thanks for the Dorotheus reference. Holden translated many of the early authors, his books were often my main introduction to them.

Skyscript Astrology Forum

The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun

Re: The Moon as debilitated, when in opposition to the Sun