Skyscript Astrology Forum

I continued the study about dignities I started under the John Lennon thread, and studied people with a lot of planets in exaltation or fall. First people with planets in exaltation ? the quotes are from AstroDatabank:

Five exalted planets: Francois Duvalier, a Haitian dictator.

?His regime was corruption-ridden, terroristic and authoritarian.?

Four exalted planets: Danish writer, taleteller Hans Christian Andersen.

His only and consuming ambition was to become a writer held in esteem. --- Andersen was perhaps better known than any other living writer, an international celebrity found in the company of his peers, and his work has been widely read ever since.--- He grew into an odd figure with huge feet and small blue eyes, a tall, delicate man, long and bony with a cadaverous face.--- To make money for the family, as a youth, Andersen worked in a cloth factory where he was often embarrassed by the workmen's bawdy humor. Gifted with a fine soprano voice, he loved to sing, that is, until the day at work when his co-workers pulled off his pants to see if he was a girl. ---

At his best, Andersen was simple, sincere, affectionate and witty. At his worst, he was vain, irritable, snobbish and terribly peculiar, with fits of depression and phobias. A hypochondriac and high strung, Andersen was often ill, and deeply afraid of being buried alive. His fear of dying in a fire was so great that he packed a rope in his suitcase when he traveled in order to escape from a window. --- He never had a sexual experience with either man or woman, though his sexual desires were normal. He wrote, "I am still innocent but my blood is burning?.

Three exalted planets: William Wingfield, a psychic; Ram Dass, an educator and author; Pierre Boulez, a conductor and composer, Arthur Janov, an author and clinical psychologist; Elizabeth Claire Prophet, a seer; David Frost, a TV journalist; David Livingstone, an explorer; Henri Bataille, a writer, philosopher and mystic, excommunicated from the Surrealist movement by Andre Breton; Camille Saint-Saens, a composer; George Harrison, a Beatle; Pier Paolo Pasolini, an film director; Katharine Hepburn, an actor; Edgar Cayce, a seer; Frida Kahlo, an artist; Jim Jarmusch, a film director; Marvin Gaye, a musician; Barbara Hand Clow, an astrologer and writer; Ewan McGregor, an actor; Ted Hughes, a writer; Francis Ford Coppola, a film director.

In general it would seem that people with a lot of planets in exaltation are idealists, they?re striving high, they are ambitious, they want to be noted and at the same time there?s often an etheric, other-worldly quality ? like many of these people would be too delicate in this coarse world, suffering from it?s rudeness and imperfection. Maybe "Neptunian" might be the word, if you will.

People with a lot of planets in fall, quotes are again from ADB:

Five planets in fall: Robert Johnston, a military Major Genear in the Arabian Gulf War

Three planets in fall: actor Julie Andrews from ?Sound of Music?

?She had five years of analysis in the '60s and looks at the difficulties of adolescence, fame, marriage and parenting with the tack, ?That's the way it was. Deal with it.? Famously private and cautious, she does not grant interviews easily.?

Sri Aurobindo, an Indian spiritual teacher; Friedrich Nietzche, a philosopher; Art Buchwald, a journalist;

Marcel Duchamp, an artist

?French artist best known for his irreverent work and enigmatic persona. He introduced a new mode of artistic interpretation of reality by which everyday objects became vehicles for ideas, becoming a major influence on the Dada movement.?

Mark Knopfler, Dire Straits guitarist / singer

?Very shy and intensely private by nature, he is easily embarrassed by such praise and some call him "the quiet man of rock ?n? roll."

Nityananda, an Indian guru, one of Muktananda?s successors

?After a few years, he stepped out of the Ashram, leaving the succession to his sister.?

RuPaul, an american transvestite; Bryan Ferry, a musician; Bob Geldof, a musician and a charity mogule;

Terence Stamp

?In 1969, at the height of his success, bored by fame and unhappy, he aborted a love affair with model Jean Shrimpton and went on a five-year pilgrimage to India. He returned to England at times to do a film.?

Shyness and privateness are mentioned twice, in four cases these people feel incomfortable by their fame and success ? that?s clearly one common factor. In fact being in fall would seem to be in it?s own way a good place for a planet: it gives a person certain kind of intelligence and ability to question things and to turn away from objects most people would love to have. If I would put it in an aphorism, I would say:

?A planet in fall is like a teenage intellectual in an American campus, wearing only black, discussing about existentialism with his peers, loathing his parent?s values and feeling deeply insecure inside.?

In fact being in fall would seem to be in it?s own way a good place for a planet: it gives a person certain kind of intelligence and ability to question things and to turn away from objects most people would love to have.

Thank you for giving me the chance to say ? scream and insist ? again that planets in detriment and fall in a natal chart can actually be quite strong. They may not always produce results that are cherished in a sunshine world, but they can indeed produce. The darker side is just as fertile.

Here are excerpts from Lee Lehman?s Leaning with Lee CD #1 on the essential dignities. I offer them not because she is the wisest lady in astrology, but because glib and simplistic incorrect statements in natal delineation can do a lot of harm.

"These planets would be starting from the stereotypical opposite from how we would expect them to act. ... People with planets in debility would be starting out acting in ways opposite from how we would expect them to act.

The opposition is a polarity [referring to rulership/detriment, exaltation/fall]; there are similar qualities in the axis. With the opposition you are on the right axis. This could be better than the planet being in some completely unrelated area. It is a matter of flipping to the opposite end (sign) of the polarity. Having your planets not in dignity means that your primary mode of functioning is not the way you were taught, and not in the way society wants you to be. You have the chance to live your life in a somewhat more conscious mode because you have to think about how you get that planet to act.

The planet in detriment finds it very difficult to operate on autopilot. It does know how to make the flip [to the opposite pole of the polarity] once trained.

In natal astrology, having debilitated planets is ultimately not a disadvantage. It can be an advantage because you are bringing things to the fore which you might not see."


That which works in horary can be a death sentence to hope and courage in natal delineation if misapplied.

Hi Kirk,

you wrote:

Thank you for giving me the chance to say ? scream and insist ? again that planets in detriment and fall in a natal chart can actually be quite strong. They may not always produce results that are cherished in a sunshine world, but they can indeed produce. The darker side is just as fertile.

You're right. I think that the word "weak" may be very misleading, when we're talking about natal dignities / debilities. These planets are not "weak" in the sense they would be insignificant or invisible. It's probably more about quality than quantity. I would believe that with any kind of dignity there's always the plus and minus side. It depends on what you want and what you value.

You're right. I think that the word "weak" may be very misleading, when we're talking about natal dignities / debilities.

Planets have natures. It is Jupiter's nature to expand. In his dignities, Jupiter is quite expansive and the more precise nature of Jupiter's expansion is shown by sign (Pisces, Sagittarius, or Cancer) house placement and aspect. The easier it is for Jupiter to be expansive, the "stronger" he is. Conversely, Jupiter in deriment and fall finds it more difficult to be expansive. Therefore he is considered to be "weak." Weak means cannot easily act in accordance with his nature. It does not mean cannot act much less cannot succeed.


Tom