Those of us who use firdaria are aware of the controversy about where to place the Moon's nodes in nocturnal charts. Robert Zoller felt that the nodes should go in the same order in both day and night charts. Rob Hand argued that the nodes should always come at the end of the cycle and govern the ages from 70 to 75. My own gut feeling was that Rob Hand was correct because it is a method of planetary periods and the order of the planets is of primary importance, the nodes being added on the round out the total period of 75 years.

I recently read an article by Steven Birchfield that gives historical support to Rob Hand's argument. Birchfield points out that the firdaria were introduced into astrology by Abu Ma'shar (787-886) and there is no reference to them prior to him. Abu Ma'shar spelled out his technique in detail in his book on Solar Revolutions, which was not translated until after Bonatti wrote his text that Robert Zoller quotes. Bonatti was relying on partial explanations of the technique found in translations of other works of Abu Ma'shar. He did not have access to the detailed explanation.

It may be that Bonatti correctly understood the original technique, however, since he does not spell out or give examples of firdaria in nocturnal charts. Bonatti writes: "?But if the nativity is nocturnal the disposition will begin from the Moon which is the nocturnal luminary and will be in all respects as was explained when it began from the Sun both regarding the participation of the planets with the Moon and regarding the succession of them in the order of the circle." Here it is ambigous when Bonatti says "in all respects" whether he is including the nodes or just referring to the planets. Ma'shar clearly meant that the order of the planets was the same but that the nodes came at the end of the sequence in both day and night charts. Robert Zoller interprets "in all respects" to include the nodes in the ordering of the firdaria. Rob Hand understands it to mean that the planetary order is preserved and the nodes come at the end.

Here is the relevant quote from Ma'shar's book on Solar Revolutions:
??but in a peculiar manner, the Ascending and Descending Nodes, since they do not further participate with any star, assume the management only after the completion of the years of the seven stars and after the native has completed seventy years, because they do not have domiciles? And in the case of diurnal nativities, the nodes distribute after Ares; but in the case of nocturnal nativities, after Hermes.? He uses Ares for Mars and Hermes for Mercury.

Now that Birchfield has identified the original source, the controversy appears to be settled. The Moon's North Node rules ages 70-73 and South Node, ages 73-75 for all of us, whether we have day or night births.

Does anyone know whether Robert Zoller has changed his views in light of Birchfield's finding of the detailed original method in the writings of Ma'shar?

Hi, Steven
Glad to see you here :-)
Would you like to contribute to the dorophyry discussion, please ?
:-)

Steven,

Thanks for your response. It was very enlightening as was your article about the nocturnal firdaria.

Tony