Skyscript Astrology Forum

I?m trying to find the use (or uses) of the concept of planetary friendships and enmities in relation to the list of planetary relationships given by Lilly [Christian Astrology].

Initially, I?m making a distinction between the data given by Lilly (and in slightly different arrangements by Ramesey [Astrology Restored], Coley [A Key to the Whole Art of Astrology] and even Raphael [A Manual of Astrology], apparently following Ramesey but, if so, containing errors) and the alternative distribution of planetary relationships used by Culpeper and other ?medical astrologers? and mentioned by Al-Biruni.

I make the distinction because the use of the ?Culpeper arrangement? is clear. For instance, according to that arrangement, the friends of Jupiter are Sun, Venus & Moon; his enemies are Saturn, Mars & Mercury. Thus, Culpeper, when discussing the use of agrimony, a herb ruled by Jupiter in Cancer, says

It . . . therefore strengthens those parts under that Planet and Sign, and removes Diseases in them by Sympathy, and those under Saturn, Mars, and Mercury, by Antipathy.

In other words, a herb of Jupiter can be used to cure the diseases of Jupiter by sympathy and to cure the diseases of Jupiter?s enemies ? Saturn, Mars and Mercury ? by antipathy.

None of this advice could be extracted from the Lilly/Ramesey/Coley arrangement since they all state that Mars is Jupiter?s only enemy, the other planets being his friends.

The use of the ?Culpeper arrangement? being known, I am content to put it aside, for now, and ask: What use or uses does the ?Lilly arrangement? have?

It comes from Book Three of Christian Astrology, on nativities, where 11th house matters are discussed. In a chapter headed Whether there may be Concord or Unity betwixt the two (p. 637), Lilly describes five ways by which friendship between two people can be denoted, of which planetary friendship and enmity forms a part. He writes:

For, first, one and the same planet in eithers Horoscope makes the same manners and the same affection; for likeness is the mother of affection: if he be not one and the same planet, but either Horoscope have a distinct planet, see then if they be friends or enemies; if they be friends, they argue Love and Friendship; if enemies, Hatred, no consent, a continual alienation of affection one from another.

If this is the only use for the ?Lilly arrangement? of planetary friendships and enmities, it is a minor one compared with the usefulness of the ?Culpeper arrangement? to medical astrologers. I have looked for other instances of the ?Lilly arrangement? being used and have found none. So far as I can see, none of the authors I have named ? Lilly, Ramesey, Coley and Raphael ? give any examples of how planetary relationships are to be used (with the exception of Lilly in relation to friendship between two people), although they all pass on the data.

I confess I haven?t looked everywhere I might, the constraints of time being what they are. I am hoping someone on the forum can help, as many of you will have read more widely than I have been able to.

Incidentally, Sue Ward?s article is the only reference to Planetary Friendships and Enmities I have encountered on the ?Net. There?s plenty on the Vedic system of planetary relationships (a horse of a very different color) but I?ve found nothing other than Ms Ward?s article on traditional western usage.

De la Forge

This is such an interesting question that I wish I had something to offer. Unfortunately I can?t recall seeing ?Lilly?s arrangement? put to further practical use either.

If it helps, I can tell you that an early reference to the enmity of planets the rule opposite houses and exaltations can be found in the 2nd century text of Antiochus (chapters 7 & 8 ). If I come across anything that relates more specifically to the ?Lilly arrangement? I?ll let you know.

Good luck with the hunt
Deb

Thank you, Deborah, for your response. Firstly, it?s good to know that I haven?t overlooked any really obvious source!

Secondly, since I?m interested in the history and use of both traditions ? the one I?m calling ?the Culpeper arrangement? and the one I?m calling ?the Lilly arrangement? ? I?m pleased to receive the information that Antiochus refers to the enmity of planets ruling opposite houses and exalted in opposing houses as early as the 2nd century.

This information applies in toto to the Culpeper arrangement. But it has only around 25% agreement with the Lilly arrangement. Out of 12 possible ?hits?, the Lilly arrangement fails to find the mark on 9 occasions. To put it the other way about, the Lilly arrangement agrees with Antiochus only 3 times out of 12.

I?m having no trouble finding out about ?the Culpeper arrangement?, but have hit a brick wall where ?the Lilly arrangement? is concerned.

De la Forge

I?ve decided to explain the disparity between what Antiochus says and ?the Lilly arrangement? in a little more detail.

By Antiochus?s rule, the Sun and Moon will be enemies of Saturn, since they rule houses opposite his. But Lilly (p. 637/8, C.A.) puts them among Saturn?s friends.

By Antiochus?s rule, Mercury will be an enemy to Jupiter, since their houses lie opposite one another. But Lilly places Mercury among the friends of Jupiter.

By Antiochus?s rule, Venus & Mars will be enemies, since their houses lie opposite one another. But Lilly puts Venus among the friends of Mars and Mars among the friends of Venus.

And so on.

De la Forge

Got a book called "The Theater of the Planetary Hours" by George Simotta from Christopher Warnock, and he uses this scheme: jupiter and mercury are friendly to eachother, etc.
he uses mainly as an electional process to use herbs: for example, to stone kidneys, caused by saturn, "take in the hour of mars or venus, his enemies, Pellitory of the wall and give the juice thereof to be drunk with wine"

Thank you, Yuzuru, for coming up with this lead.

It does indeed seem as though Simotta was working with the same planetary relationships mentioned by Agrippa and Lilly. (Forgive my hesitation in not accepting immediately that this is the same set of planetary relationships. After months of getting nowhere with this enquiry, I?m wary of tempting fate by assuming we?ve hit a seam of gold here.) In the ?Lilly arrangement?, Mercury is the friend of Jupiter and Jupiter is the friend of Mercury; also Mars and Venus are the (only) enemies of Saturn. In the ?Culpeper arrangement? all of this is the other way about: Jupiter and Mercury have mutual enmity, while Mars and Venus are classed as friends of Saturn. So the quotes from Simotta you?ve given fit the pattern I?m looking for.

Simotta was physician to the brother of the Sun King, and married to the sister of Charles II. Thus Simotta was roughly contemporary with Lilly.

I?m looking into getting hold of a copy of "The Theater of the Planetary Hours" myself in the hope of taking this further.

Once again, many thanks for the information.

De la Forge

I decided to revive this old topic after I found this article by Sue Ward.

I think its very interesting and suggests some practical synastry implications for Lilly's list of planetary friends and enemies.

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/a ... ndship.pdf



Mark