I have a question for the forum regarding 12House signification.

I have done a few horary charts for myself regarding my career aspirations. For a long time I looked for a job, without much success. I'm too well educated and was often turned away with the dreaded 'over-qualified' label. I had found part-time employment in a prestigious research institute about 6 months ago and have since worked myself into a full-time permanent position. A good thing. However, my significator or the Moon in these horaries often falls in the 12House. Of course this is the worst placement for a significator, were it not for the fact that I work in medical research in an extremely large hospital.

Horary shows the lay of the land, so to speak. I often scratch my head to try to determine whether the chart simply is pointing to me being at work in hospital or if the darker meanings of the 12House are in play. My job is fine for now, I'd like to move on someday but not just yet. However, for example, my work involves medicine and a lot of intense research. If I find my significator to be Mercury in the 8House, how can I tell if this signifies the penetrating in-depth research I do into medical procedures versus whether Mercury in the 8House shows something I'm anxious and worried about?

Are there clues that I'm missing when it comes to whether a chart shows a person in their normal (albeit possibly debilitated) environment or a person damaged?

I thought I'd put up a chart to give others a sense of what I mean. I asked this question when the opportunity to move into full-time work first arose.

The position of Program Specialist, what can astrology tell me about it?

29 JAN 2007 3:23 pm EST Philadelphia, PA 17 CAN 50

I am the Moon in Gemini, 12House from the sign of the Moon's domicile, about to step into great essential dignity but all in the 12House. Lilly would give me terrible points for debility and would say that the Moon performs poorly here. But I got the job and some much needed income. Kudos for me! Mercury 12House ruler is in the 8House and seems to indicate in-depth research, penetrating matters that are at times unpleasant. But generally speaking my work environment is really pleasant, just not as creative as I would like.

Any observations would be appreciated.

when moon moves into cancer it will be in own sign and the exaltation sign of 9th lord Jupiter which is strong in own sign.
Moon applies to trine of venus which is Almuten of 9th- higher studies/publication etc.
Points to a coming good move- which is what happened.

Moon seperated from trine of 12th lord mercury- maybe you got some good secret help- or someone put in a good word for you as mercury also rules 3rd.

involvement of 6th,8th and 12th is probably descriptive of the job.
The applications should decide what the job holds for the future.

PD

1000Camels mentions the 8th house regarding medical research, but PD seems to link the research with the 9th of higher studies. I?m confused. I was initially inclined toward the 8th: digging and probing into the dark unknown, etc. ? but that seems suspiciously modern and associated with Scorpio. The 9th house then would be correct for medical research done at a hospital? No mysterious dark findings ? just advanced learning?

Yes, I would say that the research is 9th house, not 8th house, no matter how penetrating it is. The 9th is traditionally referred to as the house of scientific research. It is good that as the Moon moves into dignity it perfects the trine with Venus on the 9th house cusp, and also that the 9th ruler is Jupiter ? a benefic planet, essentially strong, receiving a sextile from the Sun. (The Sun as your financial income, worried and anxious on the 8th, gets a boost). I can relate to Jupiter on the 6th cusp describing the medical element of your work.

There is a lot of indication of change in this chart, with the Moon and the MC both about to change signs. Maybe, as PD says, this is suggesting that your situation was about to change when you acquired the full time job, but the wording of your question seems quite specific and definitely geared towards exploring the prospects of the new position. So I can?t see this as more than a stepping stone to where you ought to be, and don?t expect you will stay in the position for too long. The chart suggests that you are being forced to hold back a lot of your potential, so ? whilst it is a solution for now ? I think it is more about where it can take you than what it can offer you long term.

The MC-ruler is Jupiter on the 6th cusp. But the MC is moving into Aries, so Mars is relevant for what is coming into play. Mars is also essentially dignified in its sign of exaltation ? it is making good aspects (eg, receiving the sextile of Venus, ruler of 11th), but again it is in the 6th house where it can?t express itself forcefully. Planets in exaltation don?t like to be ignored, and I relate this to what you were saying about the frustration of being over qualified; on the other hand, the 6th house is related to medical matters and disease, so it shows you working hard in these matters. The Moon is content with its trine to Venus, but it is not getting recognition in the 12th house. You asked ?what can astrology tell you about this position?? and the answer as I see it is ? be prepared to keep your head down, study, gain experience and make contacts. With a detrimented 2nd-ruler and Saturn in the 2nd you can?t afford to be choosy. I think it is advising you to expect a period where your personal creativity is not the issue. And that you are where you need to be, not yet where you really want to be.

1000Camels mentions the 8th house regarding medical research, but PD seems to link the research with the 9th of higher studies.

That was because of my own biased opinion of medical research.

Most of it is a chore. Most people doing it are actually trying for a higher degree to further their career.
Most of things that it churns out are actually a confirmation or denial of an existing concept.

Anything new that comes out of reasearch always needs further studies to confirm the finding and,
any research to confirm those finding has to be so large in numbers that indivisuals really don't matter- at the end of the day you get your name published in a scientific medical joirnal and earn a brownie point and the world goes on.

So, generally I boil it down to an administrative work or a publication work and use all the secrets and hospitals and diseases etc as an confirmation of the question.

I intentionally avoided referrence to cancer as nursing sign as another confirmation of medical related horary- it is still very tempting

PD

I'm dreadfully sorry to usurp this thread, but this discussion has been enlightening and confusing to me as it pertains to a question I recently asked about going to nursing school.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2201


I used the 9th to represent the nursing studies/qualification itself, and the significator of the 9th was posited on the angle but in the 12th. I had taken the 12th as 'hospitals and places of confinement', which made sense as I would initially be working in a hospital before moving on with my planned choice as a community nurse. But is this correct?

If nursing is represented by the 6th, as you say, would this be what I would need to look at for the ultimate outcome of 'being' a nurse? The significator of the 6th is detrimented, which may lead me to a different decision about my career choice!

Any ideas? (And again, apologies! I am hoping this will clarify the whole 'medical/nursing/study/research' thingmie').

Best wishes,
Gunhilde (formerly AG)

...

If nursing is represented by the 6th, as you say...

Best wishes,
Gunhilde (formerly AG)

must be a delusion of referrence on my part
I only mentioned cancer as being considered a nursing sign.

medical or nursing education is a higher education so, it should have referrence to 9th.
The specific field will be manifested in the collaterals

6th- illness
8th- death etc
12th - confinement
-and these houses/lords will somehow be represented in a question that has to do with medicine.

So a question on nursing education will have all these factors involved.
The future in that branch will then have to decided by the strength of the signifactors and the applying aspects- as they will point to the future.

That is how I try to sort it out. It is a good theory, but I am not sure if it works in practice as I havenot done that many horaries on this topic.

PD

Sorry, yes, PD, I was having another 'Neptune moment'.

You said 'Cancer = nursing' and Deb said '6th = medical matters' and I somehow went from A to B to C through that channel, associating, as one does, Cancer and the 6th house.

I suppose one would have to look at the MC for the *career* of nursing, rather than the 6th, but I'm getting myself confused.

I was really asking about the significator of the question (in my question, the 'degree') being placed in the 12th, and how that would relate at all to 'being' a nurse.

Ooof.

Hi GH

The MC is the career, but the 6th house, because it generally signifies disease, has some relevance for jobs that treat disease. For example, Lilly says (p.54) ?we usually find that Mars and Venus in conjunction in this house are arguments of a good physician?.

I used the 9th to represent the nursing studies/qualification itself, and the significator of the 9th was posited on the angle but in the 12th.

I?m not sure how you get a planet on an angle and in the 12th house at the same time. Is that what you meant to say?

I had taken the 12th as 'hospitals and places of confinement', which made sense as I would initially be working in a hospital before moving on with my planned choice as a community nurse. But is this correct?

In a general sense yes, so this could be descriptive; but I would be wary because a significator in the 12th always needs to be treated cautiously. To get a positive interpretation you really want to see the overall tenor of the chart looking promising. For example, it?s OK to see the MC ruler in the 6th or 12th if it is making a good aspect to the degree of the MC, and is well supported by other planets and strong in essential dignities.

Hi Deb,

In my chart, the 9th significator, Venus in Capricorn, is 2 degrees 'above' the ascendant, 'in' the 12th, but just barely. I recently asked a question about the angles, so apparently Venus could be seen, in this chart, to be on the angle as it is within the 5-degree orb of the cusp. I am still unclear as to the ramifications for this.

The chart itself is very mixed. The Moon is conjunct Spica in the 9th, and applies by sextile to my significator Saturn (again on the cusp, between 7th/8th). Luna also translates the light between Saturn and Venus, but only after the Moon goes into fall in Scorpio. There is a lot of mixed reception, some good, some not so good. So I have yet to figure out if I have the 'go-ahead' to apply for this course, or if I would live to regret it!

Best,
Gunhilde

In my chart, the 9th significator, Venus in Capricorn, is 2 degrees 'above' the ascendant, 'in' the 12th, but just barely. I recently asked a question about the angles, so apparently Venus could be seen, in this chart, to be on the angle as it is within the 5-degree orb of the cusp. I am still unclear as to the ramifications for this.

I apply the 5 degree rule. This means that Venus is considered an angular planet not a cadent one. You read it as if it is in the 1st house, not the 12th. Just think of it as on the 1st house cusp and therefore very strongly placed as a 1st-house planet. That is actually a very good placement for your 9th house ruler, especially as it is Venus ? an angular benefic is always promising.