I am student of horary astrology. I have read Christian Astrology and have been reading articles in SkyScript. A question has been posed to me, which I analyzed as under and rendered an opinion which would be find at the end of this post.

A 16-year girl asked me a question. (Basically her elder sister wanted to ask question on her behalf but I told her to let her sister ask). I came to know the question when it was posed by the Querent.

The question is

Should I go to Lahore (a place 280 kilometers from Islamabad) to live with my aunt (sister of mother) to complete “A” level studies at private.

The Reason being that her aunt has proposed that she would be financing her education. The Querent wants to know whether it would be a good move.

12.34 p.m. GMT, April 07, 2007 (Islamabad-Pakistan)

The house system adopted is Regiomantus. The Ascendant is 03.11 Leo.

Ascendant 03.11 Leo
Second House 27 Leo
Third House 22 Virgo
Fourth House 23.38 Libra
Fifth House 0.01 Sagittarius
Sixth House 06.0 Capricorn

Sun 17.07 Aries (9th house)
Moon 07.22 Sagittarius (5th house)
Mercury 24.15 Pisces (9th house)
Venus 24.23 Taurus (10th house)
Mars 0.44 Pisces (8th house)
Jupiter 19.47 Sagittarius (Retrograde) (5th house)
Saturn 18.18 Leo (Retrograde) (1st house) ------Saturn is the strongest planet in my horoscope plus the Querent has Capricorn Ascendant and Saturn placed in her first house in her Natal Horoscope.

POF 23.27 Pisces (9th house)
North Node 15.42 Pisces (8th house)
Uranus 16.29 Pisces (8th house)
Neptune 21.26 Aquarius (7th house)-------I am Pisces Sun.
Pluto 28.57 Sagittarius (9th house)

The Querent is represented by Ascendant.

The Aunt is represented by 12th house (third house of tenth)

The re-location is represented by 7th house (I would not class it, as short journey within the country as her intention is to live at another place)

The “A” Level education is Higher Secondary Education. I would not class it as University education and since the emphasis is on doing it privately it would be classed as 5th house.


Querent

The Querent is described by Ascendant, which has bit early ascending degree. The age of the Querent is 16 years.

The Lord of the ascendant is Sun.

-Which is bit faster than average motion. Exalted in Aries and is close to exaltation degree. The Sun is also happens to be in its own term and Face. It is in 9th House. It has distance of 6.31 from MC. So it doesn’t conjunct MC.

It tells us that the Querent is hopeful and is feeling that she is best placed. No planet is combusted. It tells us that Querent intends harm to no body. But she is capable of harming as Sun can combust other planets.

One thing of note is that Retrograde Saturn is found in First House. It tells us that the Querent is bit perplexed and undecided but not for long. The Saturn would turn Direct in mid of April.

The Saturn is lord of 7th house. 7th House tells about me (as horary astrologer). However Saturn is well received by Sun in its house, and in its triplicity. Hence the Sun has high regard of me. Lord of 7th house is retrograde it should have warned me not to proceed further in this judgement. But wait. 7th house is also of re-location. So I can move forward in my judggement . Plus Venus in its own house is located in 10th house. Which tells that whatever may be the circumstances. My reading would be well received.

The Aunt (mother of sister) is represented by Moon. The Moon is in 5th house (of higher secondary education and also of casual love flirtation) and is applying to Sun. The Aunt is the one who proposed the idea for her niece. The Moon is received by Sun in its triplicity. The Querent thinks high of her aunt.

The Sun (Lord of Ascendant) is applying to Saturn (lord of 7th-Re-location). Saturn is retrograde (but not for long). The distance is 1.11 degrees.

The time unit is 1.11. The Sun applies from Aries Cardinal sign from a Cadent house to Saturn Cardinal house (fixed sign). The emphasis is Cardinal-Moveable-Cardinal-Fixed.

The Time unit comes to weeks. Neither days. Nor months.

1.11X7=8 days. Within these days. The Saturn would turn direct. And Sun would be in 10th house. The Querent would re-locate within 8 says.

The Moon aspects

Separating------

Moon square Mars 6.38 degrees. Mars is in 8th house and is lord of 10th house. Probably Querents mother had some problems with Querent regarding some 8th house activity involving a boy (Mars) who happened to have some connection with 5th house.(Mars is received by Jupiter Lord of 5th house).

Applying-----

Moon Trine Saturn 10.56 (indicates re-location.

The POF is well placed in Pisces. It is good for Querent. The South Node is in 2nd house. The Querent is hard pressed for money plus he is also in danger of 2nd house affairs.

My advice to Querent was that it was a good move. But she has to carry herself with dignity.

I would appreciate if any body points out flaws in my chain of reasoning and corrects me as I have just begun with horary and I am not confident.

Thanks.

duh du dah !!!!

I very much enjoyed your Thread.

Very clear.

Why have you gone for "The Aunt is represented by 12th house (third house of tenth)" instead of just old 3rd?

And i'd stick with 9th for education because I get the feel it is fairly a fairly profound step for the Querant especially as it involves long travel.

Yikkes---

According to William Lilly, Mother is represented by 10th house. The sister of Mother is the 3rd house of 10th so its 12th house of the horoscope. The sister of mother in Urdu (our language ) is called "Khala" and the question was asked to me in urdu, by properly describing the relationship. Had it been question relating to relatives in general, it would have been 3rd house of the horoscope.

3rd house represents short journey, and 9th house long term journeys. Lahore is situated in Pakistan, but since question involves re-location. I classed it as 7th house.

A level education is at best higher secondary education and since the emphasis is on provate and tution basis. I thought it would be 5th house.

HOwever, i am thinking that Lord of ascendant was in 9th house.

What could it mean?

I couldn't disagree more with the above.

In questions regarding making a move to a new place, Lilly tells us the 4House is where the querent is now, the 7House is where they would like to move to, the destination. Then you compare the strength and dignity of each signifier to figure out what's best.

The querent's current house is symbolized by Venus in mondo dignity in the 10H, home is good place for her at the moment, it warm and pleasant, perhaps not very stimulating but it is safe.

Where she is thinking of moving to is represented by a detrimented peregrine retrograde malefic=Saturn. Saturn is not a welcoming signifier, he is cold and dark, lonely and isolated.

This means she should not move away. The young girl may come to regret it, she might be really lonely there as Saturn is situated in the house of self.

Saturn is in the 1House, the querent is surely thinking about a move. And the Sun applies to Saturn, she may go in any case; I think this would be a mistake. The Sun is strong in Aries, she's a very smart girl, but the 9House may demonstrate that she may more enamored of the possiblity of traveling rather than getting educated. Plus, Saturn is opposite Neptune, the destination is elusive and veiled in some way, querent doesn't see it clearly.

Plus the 9House Mercury has a separating aspect to his Rx ruler Jupiter (rx=exaggeration) and is in detriment and fall, the education abroad may not be as good an idea as hoped for. Mercury applies partile sextile Venus and is conjunct the POF, she can get her education seen to where she is right now, strengthened by Venus who receives Mercury in exaltation. Sextiles mean an opportunity and the POF is her treasure, where she needs to look to find what she's seeking.

The Moon applies trine to the Sun, she's just fine right where she is. That's my take on it.

1000Camels---

Thanks for the insights. It gives food for thought.

I came to know about horary astrology in last week of February 2007. I downloaded William Lilly’s book and have studied it once. (So you can understand that my knowledge and practice of horary is not adequate).

The question I posted was my first analysis in real life. When I analyzed it I posted it and then talked to Querent’s mother.

The thing that worried me at that time was the presence of Peregrine Saturn in ascendant-----

-According to Sue Ward. A malefic without essential dignities is more malefic. But a planet retrograde looses its force.

-According to Deborah Houlding. One should not receive a Vampire in his house. The Sun significator of Querent receives the Saturn in his house and in his triplicity. And this reception is present with a trine aspect.

-I thought that first of all it is trine aspect. So I should not worry myself too much. Plus I thought that Saturn is retro. (Vampire without his false teeth)

-I was also thinking that Saturn is not receiving Sun and thereby proves more malefic. Cause Sun in his Exaltation is unaware (the King is unaware of the scheming Prime Minister).

But according to the Aphorism number 4 of Hermes

Jupiter in good aspect with the infortunes changes their malevolency into good. Venus cannot effect any such thing unless assisted by Jupiter, therefore in procuring good and prohibiting ill, Jupiter is found much better than Venus.

Jupiter though retrograde is in trine aspect with Saturn. So it dilutes the ill effect of Saturn.

Your analysis is correct. The Querent should be more comfortable in her own house. Because in the house of the benefactor she would be following their schedule and should feel lonely. As she would be the kid in that house.

When I talked to the Querent mother I was worried that Saturn also happens to be Lord of the 6th house which represents 7th house of the 12th house. ---Husband of the Querent’s aunt.

But her mother told me that husband is quite a gentle fellow and the second son of the Querent’s aunt (also represented by 6th house of the figure) has for many years, assumed the status of mentor for the Querent and he is the one who initiated the idea. So it explains why Sun is receiving Saturn and Saturn in the first house. But due to following reasons I thought that Saturn would be unable to harm the Querent.

-Jupiter in good aspect with Saturn
-Saturn retrograde.
-The significator of the Querent in exaltation.

I advised the mother to let her daughter move. Cause she can look after herself. Plus if she doesn’t move. She can’t study. At present her mother can not afford her education expenditure.

About Saturn retro. The second son is married and his wife is a strong woman.

P.s: The Horary astrology, it appears is not that easy. I have to study more.

Hello STJ,

I would also argue the best approach to the chart is Lilly?s 1st - 4th - 7th for stay or move. Based on Lilly (CA, pgs., 212-214) the judgment is very favorable for moving and unfavorable for staying.

It is approached a bit differently than the usual horary because the 1st represents the querent's condition where they are (as if to stay). Therefore a malefic in the 1st is generally read as an indication that it is not good to stay and best to move away ? the more detrimented the malefic all the more reason to move (here Saturn in 1st is detrimented and RX). Same if there is a malefic in the 4th.

Lilly?s conditions for moving that match your chart,

- if Moon separates from an Infortune then move (Moon is separating from a square to Mars co-Lord of 4th intercepted) moreover if the malefic rules the 4th
- an Infortune in the Asc peregrine or retrograde then move (Saturn RX peregrine is in 1st house)
- if Lord 7 is with a good planet (Saturn L7 trine Sun exalted with reception and Jupiter applies by trine, as you mentioned) and Lord 4 is with an evil planet (L4 is Venus applying to a square to Mars, a malefic) then move for querent ?shall receive much damage? if she stays.
- Lord 6 in the ascendant then move (L6 is also Saturn in 1st) because where querent currently is she will lack support and therefore ?not thrive in his Vocation?.

I compared the chart to Lilly?s conditions for staying and did not find any. Conditions for staying include a Fortune in the Asc or Moon separating from a Fortune. The chart has neither. However, it has multiple testimonies for moving. In addition the Moon next applies to dignified Sun in the 9th which is trine L7 (destination) and dignified Jupiter ruling the 9th. What could be better for moving towards a really good education.

Good for you for advising the mother allow her daughter to move!

Warm regards,
Christina

Hi Christina!

Thanks. You pointed out the basic flaw in my reasoning. If i have read Lilly i should be constantly referring back to his work.

It appears that i have given a correct opinion based on flawed reasoning. This is very dangerous.

Yes, i have read those pages. The chart was crystal clear. It seems that i was inventing horary rules. A lesson for me. Next time i will try to curb my wandering imagination and like an earnest student will read the BOOK a number of times

Thanks again.

Hi there STJ and Christina,

I too have learned an important horary lesson! Thanks to you both!