So, for the last several months I've been really trying to let my saturn transit through the fifth house and conjunct my node to boot, do it's thing and teach me all about restructuring my outworn views on realtionships. Always wanted too much too soon, always settled because I was lonely, and so i was really in "the groove" of my saturn transit and just started "having fun". Flirting, going out on dates and not getting bent out of shape when things fell apart, just having a darn good time and being damn picky about the men I dated.

Enter C. This was an unfair, Saturn sneak attack. I met C. through an online dating service about a week after I had decided to let my subscription expire because, frankly, the men I was meeting via that service were boorish idiots. We conversed on the phone a few times and I found him a little annoying. But we went out anyway and...wow! Perhaps the most brilliant, intelligent, talented, artistic, and handsome person I've ever met.

We had a wonderful first date on Friday and made plans to see each other again on Sunday...which he later had to cancel because his research was not done yet (he's a very focused scientist). But he asked if I could give a rain check for later in the week when the project was done and he was in a better mood. Of course I agreed. (this was Sunday night)

So, trying oh so hard to learn my Saturn lesson and not pester/come on to strong/annoy. But I couldn't resist the temptation of the phone...So I sent him a clever little joke via text message that I thought only two geeks like us would find funny. And I thought about sending a second one...but then I worried that this might come across as irritating.

So I asked "Should I keep in touch with these silly jokes, or wait for him to call me now?"

Tuesday April 11, 1:37 pm, Bethesda, Maryland.

Leo Rising at 9.25. (another question I asked about how our first date would go also had leo rising at about 9 degrees...so I took this consistency as a good sign.)

also, with the sun in the term of mercury, and me being a virgo, I took this as an additional sign of reliability.

The sun is in the face of venus, while saturn is in the term of venus.

Saturn is in the first house, retrograde moving closer to the ascendant...suggests that maybe he is coming my way without any help from me. The sun is trine Saturn, but it's a close separating trine...our date four days ago? Jupiter also creates a grand trine between the sun and saturn and rules my fifth house of romance. Jupiter and Saturn are applying in trine. only two degrees apart. More romance in two somethings? The first date was very romantic (exotic thai food in a candle lit restaurant, and then a private piano concert) so maybe these creative influences are coming back in the form of a second date?

The moon is in early aquarius in the term of Saturn...yes, I like him. and the moon will not perfect any major aspect until crossing into the seventh house where it will first oppose saturn and then trine jupiter.

So I'm seeing some delay and frustration with the opposition, but a positive result over all.

So over all the prospects of romance look good...but what about the original question? Should I send him another joke, or not?! Also, Am I missing anything? Is there something in here that screams "this guy isn't into you?" because the paranoid part of me is really having a hard time fathoming how anyone this great could be interested in little boring me.

Speaking *purely* from personal experience, of which I've had a little too much I would hold off on sending any more texts for the time being. Men are cowardly little things, and get frightened off very easily by too much advancing from females of the species.

You would have to look at the condition of the 3rd ruler for text messages and check applications/separations to the significators of the both of you, methinks.

I am also baffled as to how the Moon can be in early Aquarius in Maryland, when it's still in Capricorn here in the UK!

[Edit]: Ah, I see you have used the date '11th April'. Sadly, it's still the 10th for a few more hours at least!

Best,
Gunhilde

Oooops!

I'm an idiot.

Well, much of the chart stays the same. Except now the moon is in the sixth and next makes a square to the sun.

I'm being my own worst enemy here? I think I need to just go play softball and let supergenius science boy come to me when he's done being a super genius.

:-) go play softball, and chat with him wednesday or thursday when he's done being genius science boy.

In fact get a hobby that gives you something to focus on when he's being focused on his projects. time enough to build things, remember SAturn leaves Leo September 3rd, so bite your tongue and bide your time.

My two cents worth.

granny

Hi Virgolass

I'm an aries ascendant too, so I have Saturn transiting and about to conjunct my natal saturn which is also conjunct my natal Venus in Leo in the fifth house, so the lessons of Saturn in Leo are quite personal to me, and if you wouldn't mind, I'd just like to give you my opinion.

It sounds to me like you like this guy. Thats awesome! Congratulations! I find myself to be picky also(virgo moon), so its truly awesome when you find someone you really like. So go for it!

Be yourself! Saturn in Leo transiting the fifth tends to put a damper on fifth house matters. Which explains why you are second guessing yourself. If you want to text message him a joke, then text message him a joke! Don't let that jerk saturn get in the way of your self expression! My guess is he will laugh when he reads the joke, and then think about how thoughtful you are if he likes you. If he hasn't decided if he likes you yet, being sweet and thoughtful and wanting to share your life with him(fifth house) can't hurt!

The bottom line is, don't let Saturn put a damper on your self expression. If you like him enough(fifth house) just do what you feel! Send him ten text messages if you feel like it! Express yourself!

Saturn turns direct on the 19th to sail his way out of Leo, and the fifth house. Never to return!!! ...ok, well in 29 years. I seriously going to throw a huge party when it enters virgo.

No, I try to communicate too much and it just pushes people away.

Thats a debilitated Saturn in Leo talking, and you know it.

Best of luck.

What happened with the other guy whom we wrote about before? Or is this the same guy...

I looked at your most recent chart, Virgolass. Significators are separating trine and the Moon does not bring them back into connection. You and this man are likely going to part ways if amicably.

Have you noticed the fact that the Sun is SOOOOOO strong????? This is you!!! In joy, in your own exaltation and triplicity!! You can do anything you want! Think about signification, the Sun in the 9House shines light on the truth of the matter.

Saturn benefits by being in aspect to so dignified a ruler, you have the power to erase Saturn's essential debilities, his peregrination for example. However, Saturn is weakened in any case. Leo is self expression and confidence, Saturn restrains this. And Saturn is opposite Neptune=confusion, worry regarding self-expression and confidence. I think Neptune in the 7H in romance charts often shows misplaced expectations. Sun's expectations may be really high and Saturn may not feel confident that he can meet them.

Venus rules the end of the matter, and she's culminating with dignity on the Weeping Sisters about to move into peregrination, not a good sign of blossoming romance. Venus separates square that prominent Neptune, again I think your expectations were perhaps too high.

The Sun in exaltation dignity may represent self-preoccupation. But the Sun and Saturn are enemies; so even in a trine, it may show the Sun forming as easy relation to something which is not especially receptive or positive for her. If you've been trying too hard to reach this man-- to please him and draw him out with your communication skill--then that means you are trying way too hard to make him like you.

If this this the case, with such a powerful significator, it's not a simple as just stopping, because this Sun is about who you are as a person of worth and value. Mercury, who signifies your communication, also signifies your 2House of self-worth, they are linked. Mercury is exalted by the benefic Sun but he is peregrine too, about to go Under the Beams, and therefore has some weakness about him. When you try too hard to reach a man, they think it means you don't have any self-worth, that there's a void and it won't be an easy task to fill it. Women who feel good about themselves--who aren't faking it or putting up a facade as if they do (hiding it and what not, trying not to come on too strong, etc.)--they don't try too hard to win anyone's approval, especially a guy they just met ("I try to communicate too much and it just pushes people away"=quest for approval).

Women who are in touch with their own feelings of dignity simply don't do this, they have other things they are interested in: other powers, talents and preoccupations. They think about issues such as "how do I feel about myself after I've talked to him?" If a feeling of ease and mutuality isn't clear, then things aren't as they appear=angular Neptune in the house of the quesited in your chart.

The Moon will eventually make a sextile to the Sun, Appleby says over and over a good aspect between the Lights is an indicator that things will turn out alright for the querent. But the Moon will conjunct Neptune and oppose Saturn before it happens. Saturn opposite the Moon is a really terrible aspect for the Moon to suffer and in this case it will be angular when it happens=harsh separative feelings will be stirred up. Reaching out too much, being too free with your time or your communication is a search for validation and reassurance, and that weak Saturn is in no position to give it (=Moon conjunct Neptune opposite Saturn). Plus, having to stop and give reassurance puts a wet blanket on a man's attempt to pursue you, and that pursuit is what men enjoy most.

Virgolass, you are the almuten of the chart! That Sun in joy says you are a special person with a unique purpose, with the gift of initiative and forwardness, you have much to give. You must be more scrupulous regarding the conditions under which you give it.

I apologize if in my comments I have gone too far, I'll jump down off my soapbox now. I wish I had better news for you...

Kindest Regards,
1000Camels

no, it's a different person.

But the same story. We go out. I think we have a great time, and then I never hear back from the other person. I never know how to "play the dating game" I always thought if you like someone it should be ok to call them, but apparently this isn't the case. I don't know...I just never have any luck with men. My life is good overall, lots of things to keep me busy and happy...but it would be nice to have another person to share them with.

C'mon Virgolass

That Sun of your is exactly sextile that Neptune, that means it would be more than nice to have a romantic buddy. You are expecting something from these dates. It's this expectation, so prominent in your charts, which continues to get you into trouble. Look through your recent horaries, esp. the ones with Saturn as the significator of the other. Neptune is right there. In this chart Saturn receives the Moon in sign but the Moon is not strong (6House+peregrine+12House ruler), you aren't offering much to him that he's really captured by; he thinks highly of you, but is uncertain about you also.

I would suggest that you take some time and think about what it is that's really driving you to be too giving, too forward, too talkative. You're not showing self-possession when you try too hard. When you keep calling and reaching out and he doesn't repond in kind, you're telling the guy that all he needs to do to keep you around is to give you reassurance and approval, basically crumbs. That he doesn't he doesn't have to anything more than that.

And anyone who has looked deeply into the nature of Mars (as the archetype of pursuer), and who understands how much more important Mars is to men than he is to women in this area of life, recognizes that men must be active in their relationships. When men don't have to do anything, they flounder. How do you draw men to you? By honestly living as though you require something from them other than reassurance, validation and approval. That will give him something positive to pursue.

Let the church say "Amen."

I always thought if you like someone it should be ok to call them, but apparently this isn't the case.

It should be ok, and it is. Just be yourself! If they don't like it, too bad for them. You shouldn't have to limit yourself and do things contrary to your nature and self expression to be happy.
And go watch the movie "Swingers" with Vince Vaughn. It should be a good laugh. Those that have seen it know what Im getting at.

To give a personal example: As I said before, I have Venus conj. Saturn in the 5th in Leo. It is very hard for me to call a girl up. I have screwed over so many relationships because I don't call, and apparently that means I don't care. Actually, it means that I am really scared of rejection so I just don't try. I'm afraid if they really get to know me the they probably won't like me, so I put on a little show about how tough I am, how I don't need anyone. The only thing that leads to is loneliness.

Screw the Horary for a second(because I'm not incredibley proficient in it),and lets just look at the fact that Saturn is transiting your 5th. Saturn is limiting your self expression. Bottom line. I can see it written all over your post. The title of your post is "Love and Self doubting". This is so Saturn in Leo in the 5th that when I read it, I had to respond. This title basically sums up my whole love life.

This girl I'm seeing now has a heart of gold. The only problem is, I am an ass. I don't call her(too personal, and scary frankly), but when I email her the first words I type are "Im sorry". What am I sorry about? Not calling when I told her I would, flaking on plans to go out. I feel horrible, because she is really sweet and nice(Moon in Taurus, god bless them, and I'm going to hurt her by doing this(synastry of Saturn square her Moon, ) and I'm just not opening myself up to her at all, because Saturn is there being a jerk and telling me that no one could ever want to be with me, for whatever reason and its going to dampen her spirit eventually!

Anyway, I know this advice is probably unwelcome from a stranger, but for some reason this thread calls out to me to give you advice, and that advice is to just be yourself. If you like someone, don't be afraid to express it. If they don't reciprocate, at least you know you tried, and perhaps this time it wasn't meant to be. But one day it will, and you will hate yourself if you were your own worst enemy by holding back what you really felt. Do you want to be with someone who you have to censor yourself to be with?

Trust me, I know!

Sorry if I'm out of line here. I'm just trying to help