POF strength varying with Sign ?

Yikkes!

POF strength varying with Sign ?

1 by Yikkes!

Hi Folks,

Always like to understand the underlying logic in everything.

Why would POF receive a -5 in Aquarius (and Scorpio) but +5 in Taurus and Pisces.

Some of the others are expected like +4 for Sagittarius and perhaps a -5 for Capricorn (ya boo).

Can't really see why Aquarius would be seen as unlucky.

And why Scorpio ?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm ?

What you think ?

Does POF link in with a basic concept of the Signs?

Hamish.

Yikkes!

Gem

2 by Gem

Probably because Scorpio, Aquarius and Capricorn are ruled by malefics: Mars and Saturn, though I don' t know why in Aries 'he neither gets or loses', as Lilly says.

Taurus and Piesces are ruled by the benefics: Venus and Jupiter.

Tom

3 by Tom

though I don' t know why in Aries 'he neither gets or loses', as Lilly says.

Possibly because Aries is the sign of the Sun's exaltation. It neutralizes the effect of the malefic Mars.

Tom

Yikkes!

4 by Yikkes!

This is where I struggle.

Because if you a miserable son of a stone then your luck will be in in the Malefics' signs, n'est pas?

And who can say they are so Holy ?

H.

Yikkes!

Tom

5 by Tom

This is something I have a hard time understanding the logic in at all. Why is the POF given any essential dignity? It is not a planet. It rules nothing.

None of the astrologers in the distant past who used the POF considered it to have any "dignity" at all.

On page 145 of CA Lilly doesn't say the POF has essential dignity. He does however, list signs, houses, and aspects by which the POF may be judged strong or weak. He also uses these words:

If in conjunction with Jupiter or Venus, it has dignities.

But they would be accidental not essential dignities. Elsewhere he says the POF "has alowed dignities" in Taurus and Pisces. Abu Ali Al Khayyat (c. 770 - c. 835) made similar statements. To wit:

Look at the source of prosperity and property, viz, the Part of Fortune. And if is in the exaltation of the Sun [the native] will be rendered fortunate by association with kings and princes. And if it is in the exaltation of Jupiter, his fortune will come from connection with nobles and great men and religious persons. But if it is in the exaltation of Mars, his fortune will come from connection with military commanders and warlike men. But if it is in the exaltation of Venus, his fortune will come from friendship with women and effeminate men.

But if it is in the the exaltation of Mercury, his fortune will come from learned men, scribes, and wise men. But if it is in the exaltation of the Moon, his fortune will come from association with slaves, the public, and legal witnesses.

Finally if it is in the exaltation of Saturn, fortune will come to the native from association with slaves and slave girls on farms or old men. Further in like manner you will judge from the term and the domicile where the Part of fortune is and especially if its lord aspects it. - The Judgment of Nativities, James Holden translator, AFA 1988, page 24

Abu Ali isn't saying that the POF has essential dignity of his own but rather he is sharing in the dignity of the planet whose sign he occupies. And according to Abu Ali, he is most well placed in the signs that have planets of exaltation. Therefore, the POF is lacking something in Gemini, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Aquarius and Leo. He also mentions house placement and condition of the ruler further on in the text

As for me I've never been able to fathom the idea of exaltation of the nodes. They too are points, not bodies, and they rule nothing. Yet the north node is said to be exalted in Gemini and the South node in Sagittarius.

Nothing better describes Bush's high rank, dignity and good fortune better than the Fortune chart within his nativity. But at no point would the ancients have given points to Fortune.

Lilly gives points, but, in my opinion these are simply guidelines, not hard and fast rules. However they seemmore like accidental dignity than essential dignity. I've never seen these points used as absolutes or anything else in any judgment natal or horary in CA. I think he's just giving the student something to work with until he gets a better grasp on judgment.

Tom