Skyscript Astrology Forum

With today's Ingress of the Lunar North Node into Aquarius, I would like to open a new thread to reframe the astrology/science debate by the Leo/Aquarius axis.

Objective of this thread is to:

1. develop significators for science and astrology
2. make predictions based on upcoming eclipses in Leo/Aquarius
3. watch events unfold in the next few years.

Assumption for this thread: Dorothean triplicity rulers, Egyptian bound rulers, Decans of Varahamihira (based on triplicity, not Chaldean decans), Lunar Node = Mean Node calculation.

Some of these topics have already been discussed in other threads and I would like to give my thoughts to start:

Significator of astrology: Mercury. This is the traditional significator and I have found it accurate. As a personal example, for various companies I have worked for, I have been able to time my own actions by directions of Mercury to the angles in incorporation charts.

Signs for astrology and science. Late degrees in Leo/Aquarius have been defined as 'astrologer's degrees' and have been discussed elsewhere on the forum. Speaking personally, with Saturn in the 24th degree of Aquarius in the 12th and Mars in the 29th degree of Leo conjunct Regulus in the 6th, I am well familiar with this signification and is one reason why I am starting this thread. But to say that astrology is Leo 'AND' Aquarius is a bit sloppy. Astrology cannot be 'both'; though because of the polarity of signs, malefics in one sign may throw the signification back to the opposing sign.

My current hypothesis which I would like to tighten up this month is:

astrology = Mercury/Aquarius
science = Saturn/Aquarius
humanism = Leo

I think the thing which has really confused discussion on this issue is that the current astrology/science debate has more to do with humanism vs astrology than science vs astrology. It's only with the rise of humanism among scientists that the debate has become what we have today. I propose that the reason why astrology was considered science in the old days was because Mercury/Aquarius and Saturn/Aquarius are really blood brothers. Something happened astrologically to split this apart.

The application of Abu Mashar's method for determining the rise of prophets through conjunctional astrology is one way of testing this kind of logic, taking a more loose definition of 'prophet' as any individual who creates and leads a religious sect (this would include humanist scientists). One could make an entire career out of this line of research which is way beyond what I wish to do here.

But to stir the pot a little, consider the 4 March 1981 Jupiter-Saturn conjunction with Mercury 20 Aquarius. If I am right and Mercury/Aquarius signifies astrology, then we should be able to see some events when this planet is highlighted dynamically. How to do this? For a JSC, Abu Mashar says there are two ways to profect the conjunction, the Ascendant and the JSC degree itself. Profecting the Ascendant requires a location, will take a pass on that; profecting the JSC does not. At the rate of 30 degrees a year, the profection of the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction reached Mercury on 29 July 1985 and 29 July 1997 so far (12 year cycle - next 29 July 2009). Anything happen regarding revival of traditional astrology on those dates? Please chime in.

My point of bringing up the Jupiter-Saturn cycle is that once the signifiators are properly defined, we should be able to predict astrology's rise and fall through history by applying Abu Mashar's rules for the rise of prophets and religious sects to significators of astrology and science in these Jupiter-Saturn figures. Why nobody has taken a crack at this so far is kind of mysterious to me.

Anyway, to confirm the significators, I would like to look at no more than 3-4 natal charts of pro-astrology and anti-astrology individuals of historical significance and see which configuration was responsible for a specific event. Thinking like Paul Kurtz' second Humanist Manifesto of 1973 for an anti-astrology view. I need help with birth data, though am willing to rectify most anything these days with minimal data.

So any suggestions for specific individuals and events? 3 pro and 3 anti-astrology? Over to you guys.

one last thing: Something else I have seen related to the Leo-Aquarius axis is a pro and anti Catholic bias. Saturn/Leo in USA President Fillmore's figure was related to anti-Catholicism, also anti-Masonry. On the flip side is Jupiter/Leo which I have seen signify a 'God and Country' philosophy which is a complete unification of church and state, involves creeds and the like. Have also seen this in several pro-Catholic figures. Constantine (Rome) is an example of a unifier of church and state with a creed (Niceane Creed, also big opponent of astrology); Huckabee is the most recent Jupiter/Leo individual to pledge for unification of church and state. One can also see that both astrologers and Catholics were on the wrong side of Charles II restoration. What the connection is between astrology and Catholicism needs further fleshing out. Perhaps John Frawley can ring in on this one.

Sorry to ramble, a bit of Gemini on this end.

So, Dr H, we meet again.

I just want to mention the 'anti-astrology signature' chart that Geoffrey Cornelius uses in Moment of Astrology - p.27 of the second edition. He takes a chart that was published as part of the 'Objections to Astrology' article in, appropriately enough, the Humanist. If you want something a little less symbolic and divinatory, it might be worth looking at the chart for the publication of the article. The chart Cornelius uses has Mars, ruling the 7th, at 26 Aquarius by the way.

Yours in mysteriousness,
Anon

Such mysteriousness ... It?s feeling rather cloak-and-dagger around here. I?m almost expecting to hear a groan, a heavy thud, and rapid footsteps fading into the rain.

I mentioned in the first post that Jupiter/Leo for Constantine was a signature for a unified church and state combining Christianity and Rome. It also appears to be an anti-astrology placement, though this needs more testing.

Here I would like to present a trial rectification for Constantine.

Constantine the Great
ASC = 16SC41'50"
27 Feb 272 AD JC
11:36:56 PM
LMT -1:27:36
Nis, Serbia
21e54'00
43n19'00

I feel very secure with the angles, though have played with an Ascendant as early as 13 Scorpio.

Please note I am loose with a few details - this is a web post, not an academic article.

Fidaria. Nocturnal Sequence. Following a contested leadership stake after the death of his father on 25 July 206 (Major Mars), he scored his major victory at the Battle of Milvian Bridge on 28 October 312 following his alleged vision the prior evening when we was told to place the sign of the cross on his troops shields. This battle occurred during his North Node Fidaria period. North Node in 8th makes people enjoy killing, if so configured. (See also Rutherford Hayes in A Rectification Manual). Constantine has Ascendant ruler Mars conjunct North Node in the 8th. He achieved his greatest period of fame in his major Sun period with the defeat of Licinius in 324 (Sun-Jupiter). As soon as major Venus begins on 27 February 326, he has his son and wife killed.

The latter incident is of great interest and I believe it cements the angles on his chart. Constantine allegedly killed his son (by slow poison) and his wife (had her thrown into hot water until she suffocated) because they were having a sexual affair. When one looks at the chart, and seeks Venus, ruler of 7th, in the 5th of children combust and applying to the Sun (significator of Constantine's own son), this is a match. Venus combust shows actions hidden, but also the judgment of vice according to the Mayan understanding of the Sun-Venus synodic cycle. Venus also rules 12th, death of children. Saturn, almuten of the 12th, also plays a role here because Saturn at 7VI45 is a highly critical and authoritarian placement. Note at 7VI45 Saturn is placed in the bound of Venus/Virgo, which is vice, and bound ruler Venus is placed in the 5th of children, as stated above. Constantine was noted for unusually harsh punishments of adultery. There are tales of burning people at the stake, pouring molten lead down the throats of people who allowed premarital sex, really brutal stuff.

Some specific measurements.

Dates for someone in antiquity like Constantine are pretty sketchy, am relying more on solar return planet - natal arabic part/angle configurations for this rectification.

Death of father. 25 July 306. In the 306 return:
s.r. Mercury 29AQ36 conjunct natal 4th cusp. Mercury rules natal 11th, death of father. On day of death, tr Mercury 28LE05 conj. MC

Victory at Battle of Milvian. 28 Oct 312. In the 312 return:
s.r. Mars 16SC47 conjunct natal ASC in the return's 4th. Note recapitulation of Sun-Venus conjunction. Besides the indication for death of wife as stated above, Venus also rules 7th of open enemies and combust the Sun is consistent with victory over Maxentius who drowned when most of his troops with a bridge of boats collapsed.
Regarding his alleged vision of 27 Oct 312, note s.r. North Node 10AR09 conjunct Part of Spirit 9AR41. Jupiter 2CP09 trine Part of Faith 2TA35. On the day of vision, d.s.a. Jupiter 20VI11 conj antiscion of Part of Spirit 20VI19 within 8 minutes of degree.

Edict of Milan - Tolerance of Christianity. Feb/June 313. In the 313 return: s.r. Moon 29LE16 conjunct natal MC. s.r. South Node 20VI48 conjunct Part of Spirit (that one doesn't make sense).

Other measurements (primary directions)
d. Jupiter sextile MC, lat=Jupiter, 13 May 311. This times death of Galerius 5 May 311 and the Edit of Tolerance 30 April 311. Jupiter rules 5th, death of kings.

d. Venus opposed Vertex, lat=Venus., 28 May 326. Killed his son between mid-May and mid-June 326. Again, Venus in 5th of children rules 12th of death of children.

I am not happy with an arcus vitae at this point. Figure is nocturnal and favors Moon as hilaj, but Moon in 9th is in the house opposite of his house of joy, disqualified under some systems. Sun possible hilaj. Killing planets by al-mubtazz scoring are Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn. There is a converse Jupiter square Sun sequence 9 Sep - 19 Oct 337, a bit late compared to death on 22 May 337; also a d. ASC square Mars, lat=Mars on 7 August 337, a bit closer. Note also tr. South Node 2GE06 closely conjunct antiscion of Part of Death 26CA38 on day of death.

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The objective of this post is to establish Jupiter/Leo as the significator for Christianity as a state-supported religion (believe this is true considering Huckabee with Jupiter/Leo believes in the unification of church and state), also as an anti-astrology signature. This latter issue needs more clarification but this post is a start and will be the basis of looking at anti-astrology attacks in the Roman Empire following Constantine.

Comments are welcome.

What I would like to do in the next week or two is to close out this thread by examining the primary attacks against astrology during the Roman Empire from Constantine's reign to roughly Justinian's closure of the Academy in 529 AD.

The following dates appear most relevant (scanning Tamsyn Barton's Ancient Astrology and Peter Whitefield's History):


357. Constantius: "The inquisitiveness of all men for divination shall cease forever."
365. Council of Laodicea forbids clergy to be astrologers or magicians
385. Execution of Priscillian
409. Honorius & Theodsius required astrologers to burn their books in presence of bishops on pain of exile.
425. Expulsion decree - astrologers included with Manicheans
489. Zeno closes center at Edessa
529. Justinian closed schools of philosophy
553. Quinisext Council in presence of Justinian vigorously attacked astrology.
572. 2nd Council of Braga, pronouncement against using astrology before building houses, planting trees, or moving.

I would also like to take up a rectification of Saint Augustine, and perhaps Constantius as well given his comments in 357.

Again, the objective for all this is to test the Leo-Aquarius axis as the root of attacks against astrology, here assigning Leo to the Church and Aquarius to astrology. Once finished, any lessons learned can be applied to more recent situations either in the Middle Ages, or up to the present date with Dawkins, et al.,

Need some help here.

1. Would anybody like to comment on my rectification of Constantine and my premise that Jupiter/Leo signifies Christianity as a state-supported religion with Jupiter/Leo in the figure of Mike Huckabee the most contemporary example?

2. Has anybody attempted a rectification of Saint Augustine, would like to see it.

3. Of the dates listed, which are the 2-3 most important, in the eyes of students of the history of astrology? Come on, Kepler grads, where are you?

Thanks for any insights on these matters,

1. Would anybody like to comment on my rectification of Constantine and my premise that Jupiter/Leo signifies Christianity as a state-supported religion with Jupiter/Leo in the figure of Mike Huckabee the most contemporary example?

I can?t comment on the rectification as I just don?t know enough about Constantine. And let?s put aside the facts that as of this writing, Huckabee?s chances of winning the US Presidency are only slightly better than Constantine?s, and the respective historical and cultural circumstances couldn?t be more different. Assuming Huckabee believes that a state supported religion is a good thing, he?s running for President not Emperor.

Constantine?s chart has Jupiter and its dispositor, the Sun, in mutual reception. The Sun is also Lord 10 and Jupiter is the exaltation ruler of the rectified 9th (Alcabitius semi arc and whole sign) and Jupiter is keeping company with the Moon lady of the 9th. These are strong state/religion connections.

The dispositor of Huckabee?s Jupiter in Leo, the Sun, is in Virgo, Jupiter?s detriment. Jupiter is in the third sign/house and if we accept Morin, since the 9th is unoccupied, Jupiter has influence over the affairs of the 9th. Jupiter rules the 10th sign, but not the MC, which is placed in the 9th sign. I don?t know that Huckabee believes in a theocracy, all Republicans that are strongly associated with a religion are accused of that despite there not being any evidence of same. Note GOP Presidential candidate Mitt Romney?s being a Mormon is a cause for concern, but Senate Majority Leader Democrat Harry Reid being a Mormon is not.

Constantine?s chart seems to have a strong connection between church and state, while Huckabee?s appears more tenuous. What is interesting about Huckabee?s chart that is less obvious in Constantine?s is the Saturn connection. Huckabee?s Jupiter is in the bounds of Saturn and the dwad of Aquarius, a Saturn sign. Constantine?s Jupiter is in the bounds of Venus and dwad of Capricorn. Huckabee?s Saturn is also in a partile square to Jupiter. There is a strong Saturnine component to this Jupiter and perhaps investigation would be time well spent, if he were going anywhere but back to Arkansas. Constantine?s Saturn has less of a connection to his Jupiter, but it is tightly opposed to his Sun. From all this we might conclude, perhaps prematurely, that Huckabee?s religious beliefs are more Saturnine than Constantine?s and that Constantine might have embraced Christianity for political purposes rather than theological.

Interesting comparison.

Tom