Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hi all,

While some traditional astrologers wonder if early arab and greek astrologers used the sidereal zodiac, there is a possibility that in India in vedic times the tropical zodiac was used. I never thought in that direction until I read Ernst Wilhelm?s interesting and readable article:

http://www.vedic-astrology.net/Articles ... Zodiac.pdf

It?s an important point in assessing the relationship between western and indian astrology and I wonder why I have never heard about it before.

Are there any vedic astrologers out there using vedic techniques with the tropical zodiac ? What are your experiences ?



leywand

Thank you for the reference. Ken Johnson at the Conclave in Maryland 2006 gave an EXCELLENT history of Vedic astrology vis a vis Hellenistic Astrology.

To paraphrase -- the zodiax were congruent at the inception of "modern" vedic circa 200 AD & the early forms were ostensibly Tropical (solar) ... but precession worked its magic and the jyotisa found that they were losing the Nakshatras (lunar mansions) which were identified with particular stars or star clusters and thus reverted to the Sidereal zodiac.

Personally and philosophically, I prefer the Tropical zodiac which is the SOLAR zodiac -- the equinoces and soltices being Solar events (relative to earth of course) which define the cardinal points of the Solar (tropical) zodiac -- but, while interested, I don't "do" jyoti --

I've commented on this topic before in previous debates but I'll add this link to an excellent article by Robert Hand:

http://cura.free.fr/quinq/01hand.html

Note his trenchant observation:

These are our old friends the System A rising times for Babylon again; and again, just as in Valens, they are identified with the signs of the zodiac, not a separate set of 30 degree divisions having no fixed relation to the signs of the zodiac. And again they are symmetrical with respect to 0 degree Aries, something that can only happen in a tropical zodiac. Was this eminent figure of the Hindu tradition a tropicalist? Apparently so. In another early Hindu work, the Yavana Jataka, we also find symmetrical rising times, indicating a tropical zodiac although these rising times at least are recomputed for India.

As Dr. Prajarao notes, "It is worthwhile to note that some Vedic Astrologers use Sayana coordinates for the planets." Like, for example, here:

http://www.leoastro.com/

This article might also be helpful:

http://www.shiftinaction.com/node/4696

This article (from the Arya Samaj) is long but fascinating:

http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_cel ... n_time.htm

Happy reading!

thanks for the links and thoughts.

What I found particularly interesting is that while usually the nakshatras or lunar mansions are used as a reason for the use of the sidereal zodiac (as in SGFoxe?s reply), in the text provided by Andrew (http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_cel ... n_time.htm) they also appear in purely tropical context.

27 (or 28 if we include Abhijita as well) nakshatra divisions also are related to a sayana zodiac:
The nakshatra divisions ? which are actually entirely unrelated to constellations off similar names and more often known by ?Lunar mansions? or --- as by Alberuni --- ?lunar stations?-- have been related to only a seasonal zodiac by all the Puranas and sidhantas. Even the monk-commentator Anandabodha Yati, who flourished around 12th/13th century AD, in his Tatparya Prakasha Commentary of the ?Yogavasishtha Maharamayana? has referred to tithi, nakshatras and (Vishkumbha, Preeti etc.) yogas as related to only a seasonal i.e. tropical zodiac vide Nirvan. Prakran, 1st half, chapter 81!

I?m not really into "vedic" astrology and this mainly because of its use of the sidereal zodiac, which never made sense to me and also didn?t really work in the charts I used, but I?ll have to check out if vedic techniques work better with a tropical zodiac.

As Robert Hand stated in the end of his article mentioned by SGFoxe:

This is a question that we have to solve for ourselves. An appeal to history will not work.