Just a general question here:

How many testimonies does one need to see the matter fulfilled? Is there a minimum?

For example: sometimes in relationship questions you see the Moon applying to either the querent or the quesited, but no translation of the Moon from one to the other. Does this matter, even if the querent/quesited significators are applying to aspect?

Hence: Moon app. L1; L1 app L7 = 'go'?

or another: Moon app. to L5 (in a romance question) but not to L1 or L7. Does this just show intention rather than result?

Or: L1 app L7 but no Moon involvement.

Ideally of course we want to have strong testimonies and a lot of them; but most of the charts I look at are lacking in this emphasis...perhaps because we live in a time where relationships have less impact or import on general life (in casual relationship terms, I mean; not marriage). They are things we 'like to' have.

The reason I'm asking is because of the recent Mercury/Jupiter antics. Mercury and Jupiter meet by bodily conjunction, which in theory brings the matter about; but how is this testimony weakened by a lack of Moon involvement?

Ditto the impending Venus/Mars sextile...and I note that Venus and Mars both aspect Saturn at *exactly* the same time. What effect, do you think, will this have on questions asked at this time?

Thanks for any ideas.

GH

Very interesting questions Gunhilde, I have been trying to understand the dynamics of the Mercury-Jupiter aspect myself. At first glance it looks like a mutual application and a perfection of the matter (at least to my not-so-trained eye), even without Moon involvement. BUT? I went back and tried to read carefully Graeme Tobyn?s article on ?Return of light?

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/tobyn3.html

?Return of light' belongs with refranation and evasion, because it depends on the condition of one of the significators and does not involve a third planet. According to Al-Biruni and Abu Mash'ar, return of light occurs when one of the significators is either retrograde or combust.?

If I understand correctly, in our case Jupiter would not be able to hold Mercury?s light and would return it to Mercury. It is also the swifter planet that is retrograde and that damages the outcome even more. What I noticed and may be important, is that in the examples in the article, the aspects that perfect but still do not give positive outcome because of return of light are not conjuctions, like the Jupiter-Mercury case. Also, Mercury?s debility is counterbalanced to some degree by his dignity as triplicity ruler. Jupiter is received in Mercury?s triplicity and I am assuming this may ?make Jupiter more willing to hold on to the poor quality Mercurian light/influence?? House placement is another factor to incorporate into the delineation, as always.
I am sorry if I complicate things unnecessarily, but I am still in the process of learning.

No, quite okay, I appreciate the input!

It's just that I see a lot of charts where the testimony is 'so-so': peregrine planets or retrogrades or the Moon applying to one thing but not another. I was just wondering whether people had any charts like these where things *did* work out...?

GH

Gunhilde,

When I saw your post, I related to you very much and I was looking forward to hear from what others got to say on this topic. But I am surprised that there wasnt much response.

i am still at the elementary stage of studying horary, but elected quite lots of charts in past and wondered the same. (not on the same topic, of course) In reality, we hardly see a perfect chart(without restrictions, significators strong, applying with reception and moon's well positioned etc) which made me feel that maybe out of so many horary questions asked, most gives "no" or negative answer. In lots of occasions, I consulted so called professional horary astroger and they gave straight positive answers but didnt come true at all. So I kinda believe any questions that I ask horary has jinx of not coming true - though despite this, i keep studying horary. To that extent, i may not be a good reference....

So what is your experience?

"<i>It's just that I see a lot of charts where the testimony is 'so-so': peregrine planets or retrogrades or the Moon applying to one thing but not another. I was just wondering whether people had any charts like these where things *did* work out...?

GH Smile</i>"

Hi GH,

Interesting that you should mention that. It happens to describe a dilemma I had a while back when I cast a chart for myself asking whether or not it would be worthwhile for me to do a certain thing. There was no upcoming aspect between the main significators, i.e., me/the querent/ruler of the Asc., and the quesited, but the Moon was in great shape, dignified, angular (within 5 degrees of the Asc.) and its first upcoming aspect was a sextile to the quesited.

So I debated; I had an extremely strong feeling I should go by the main significators and not do it, but I couldn't resist what seemed to be the "promise" of that super strong Moon. So I did it, and sure enough I did not get the result I was looking for, and I regretted having done it, kicking myself for not listening to my gut and going by the main significators, instead of taking a chance on that Moon.

But the whole thing bothered me because it was the first time something like that had happened with a Moon that strong and in aspect and not coming through at all, and I kept thinking it must represent a silver lining somewhere, but I would probably never know what it was.

Then voila! On Christmas Day, I just happened to run across some information that not only soothed a certain apprehension I had had about doing the thing in the first place, it was also quite validating besides. (I wish I could be more specific, but it's probably best not to in this particular case.)

Anyway, the whole thing seemed to say to me that the main significators are most important, but everything else, especially the Moon, still means exactly what it seems to represent, even if it contradicts other things or you don't happen to find out what it is.