Hi All,

If you don't like rambling- go back now

I am curious about which house you would give to Mantra recitation and Meditation. Ninth house seems obvious candidate for the metaphysical, and the 12th for the secret or witchery.
In the questions that I have been asked- 5th house lord seems to be heavily involved !! . Maybe because it is 9th from 9th or a part of 1,5,9 trio, but what does 5th add to it . The teacher(Guru) or preceptor should go to the 9th;may be the messenger or the ambassdor to the 5th, but this is not the Guru .

The Dictionary meaning:
Mantra='instrument of thought',speech,sacred text or speech,a prayer or song of praise.

TIA

PD

I'd say it's the 9th unless you think meditation is malefic (the 12th) or entertainment (the 5th).

I would think anything to do w/ belief systems, philosophy, spirituality, religion, etc. would be the 9th.

From Prashan-e-Aftab by Pundit Devi Dayal Jyotshi p.38

Khana Punjum: Hall furzund ya dukhtur ya mashooq ya mulakat dostaan ore ahwal aulad key uptanee ore taizee akul ore hamul aurat ore hasool ilm-o-hunar wa akul, wa muslayhut naik-o-bud ore muntur juntur ore mureed o chaila ore ilum-e-museeke ore jumla aloom ka is khana say buchar kiya jata hai

The above text is in mixed persian and hindi:

Translation:

Fifth House: Concerning son or daughter, friends meeting (you can say in a pub), concerning children (own), increase and decrease of one intellect, pregnancy (of women), good and bad omens, Mantara Jantara, Disciple, Knowledge of Music, and any other knowledge is seen from this house.


Explanation (Horatio) :

In olden times, seeking of knowledge was considered as an activity which was taken with the lighter mind. People were learned but they never took pains as one is obsessed in modern world. Now a days, children are expected to learn against their will,, which gives me doubts to consider the modern primary or secondary education (especially in my country) is a 5th house activity.


In some books of astrological geomancy (ilm-o-ramal), we see that Juntur and mantur or magic is represented by 6th house but careful reading of the text reveals that 6th house is used in a sense of making some Djin as a slave or act as an enemy and cast a spell on some body.



[/u]

Pankaj:

I have also seenn 5th lord and 5th house involved in questions relating to Mantar, Jantars and recitations.

Maybe you are right, it forms part of a trikon 1-5-9

1=Self

5=Seeking knowledge

9= Beliefs

Ascendant casts sinister trine to 5th house
Ascendant casts dexter trine to 9th house

I've heard that rituals, i.e., mantras, are designated to the 3rd, as well as heresy.

Fifth House: Concerning son or daughter, friends meeting (you can say in a pub), concerning children (own), increase and decrease of one intellect, pregnancy (of women), good and bad omens, Mantara Jantara, Disciple, Knowledge of Music, and any other knowledge is seen from this house.

I recently asked about the health of my spiritual teacher and was at first puzzled by the fact that his turned 5th house was packed with planets. Then I realized that it represented us, his concerned students/disciples/devotees. And that made sense as what we have with our lama is very much a heart connection, like a parent to his children -- 5th house.

Tara

Thanks everyone! and I thought no one would bother about this thread.

9th was the obvious one.

Steven and Carol:

That was a very forceful argument for 3rd-the third lord is indeed heavily involved.

STJ: I think my bias towards 5th may have come from the Jyotish books that I have read in the past, and maybe some of Tajik astrology. It seems to hold true when I convert the chart to sidereal.Sidereal 5th lord is exalted in the 9th. Thanks for the quote.

Tara: you could be correct, incidently, the mantra was the Tibetan Vajra Guru mantra but there was no guru involved, the audio file was downloaded from the Internet.

Tanit: Initially, I too went for the 9th and it would still hold true,but other curiosities distracted me.

Here is the charts:

Will chanting the mantra(Vajra guru..) prove beneficial for me?

30 Jan 2009
1606 hrs(AEST =GMT +10)
153E27
28S03

Cancer: rising 1deg 09 min
Moon in 9th separates from 3rd lord-retrograde Mercury and applies to exalted 5th(and 10th) lord Mars in 7th.

Moon goes on to apply to Venus-11th lord, exalted in 9th.
9th was the obvious one.
It did prove beneficial.
The beneficience was said to be some sort of document arriving although this was not explicitly stated at the time of question.

-----
addn:

Mithra6: the audio of the mantra was downloaded from the net;not received from a guru or teacher.

Hi pankajdubey,

Early ascendant notwithstanding, the chart clearly shows that you will benefit as you, the Moon, are applying to an exalted Venus in the 9th house of spirituality. Couldn't be much clearer than that. And you asked the question in the Moon hour of Venus day. Definitely beneficial.

The beneficience was said to be some sort of document arriving although this was not explicitly stated at the time of question.

Huh? Can you explain what you mean by this and where you see it in the chart?

Tara

Tara wrote:Hi pankajdubey,

......

The beneficience was said to be some sort of document arriving although this was not explicitly stated at the time of question.

Huh? Can you explain what you mean by this and where you see it in the chart?

Tara

Hi Tara,

How does the querent interpret that the mantra has been beneficial ?

A long awaited document arrived- a kind of a sign that mantra is working. But, the question was not whether a particular document would arrive or not.

Moon's last aspect was to 3rd lord mercury, the document was already signed but not posted by the time the question was asked.

-document dated Jan 25,2009 postmarked Feb 06,2009.

PD

Hi Pankaj:

My last post was bit incomplete. Taweez, recitation of Mantar/Jantar has been represented by different houses. Whenever, i have problem in Horary, i refer to my books on astrological geomancy.

According to my books:

11th, 3rd, 6th, and 5th have been shown to represent Recitation of Mantar, Jantar in some form or the other.

Here we have to differentiate the nature and purpose of the recitations involved (or in Islamic terminology: recitation of Quranic verses) for some purpose.

So, basically it is the nature

of what is being recited?
for what purpose it is being recited?

Here is my understanding of astrological geomancy (from various persian, hindi, urdu books and i use it in horary)

Basically Mantar Jantar or recitation is done with some purpose in mind. In itself, it has no value.

We want some material benefit
We recite for general good luck or
We want to progress spiritually (Salook key Manazil tay kurna)

-------------------------------

If some expert give us a Taweez, amulet or magical square to wear for some special purpose that is a 3rd house thing. I know that John Frawley would protest that it is a personal possession. But it is personalised, it is document, it can not be converted, it can not be marketed, it can not be exchanged, it is not an advisor. So, it being, a piece of paper, or article is 3rd house and not 2nd house.
--------------------------------------
If some one says us to recite special words or mantar or jantar for some material benefit (or windfall/unexpected gain). That recitation is 11th house affair

-------------------------------------

If some one is interested in acquiring the knowledge of amulets, recitations, etc. It is a 5th house affair. Or if some one recites for general good luck and well being, it is 5th house affair.

Like, humm you know what we dialy recite in Indo-Pak culture

-----------------------------------

If some one use the recitations (daily) in order to capture a malevolent spirit (Djin, Incubus, Succubus) thats a 6th house affair

----------------------------------

If some one use the recitations (daily) for Spiritual (Mystical progress). That recitation is 9th house affair

I hope it sums up my understanding

Thanks Tariq,

That was very helpful. 5th house is also the house for "Mantrana=advise or Mantri=advisor" but this is not the perceptor or teacher.Maybe, Internet is an advisor not a perceptor yet

The results would fit in with Steven's stress on the 3rd house as well.Interestingly, construction of temple is 3rd house, so is theology but religion is 9th. I will have to study Lilly's Presbytery chart and Presbyterianism once again.

Looks like Hellenistic or Arab astrologers would be the best bet.It is getting very interesting indeed

PD