hi all

a relatively young woman wanted me to look at fertility cycles and electional chart...
in the middle of the conversation she asked if a man she is in love with will have children together or seek alternative methods.

will we have a baby together?
august 17
9:59 am
santa monica, ca
10 libra
well .. asce ruler has nothing to do with hour of the planet
but asce is in the same degree as her mars. so that would be important question and personal
if i use "we" then it is 1/5/moon
if i use 7 then it is 1/7/5/moon
jupiter in 5th house looks promising but it is debilitated

venus / saturn will aspect through moon
venus is fertile
moon is super fertile
saturn worries me since itis in joy house venus/saturn bad reception detriment/fall
so i am not sure what's with this bad reception
can anyone look?

saturn in 12th house worries me - a secret / or hospitalization will be required?

thanks
CD

could you explain the situation? I got confused. It seem a very strange question.

yes, I'm a bit confused as well. Does she want to know if she'll have children in general or if the two of them will become parents together (as a couple) or, in better words, if he is going to be the father of her child/children?

I guess that it would also be important to know if she is asking that out of general curiousity (or if their relationship will actually ever rech that phase) or because she thinks that one of them might be infertile. Because, she did mention the option of seeking alternative methods (would that be adopting a child or asking for a medical help?) and, you on the other hand, say that she is very young!

Hi guys

thanks!

okay here is what is going on

34 year old is engaged to be married to 32 year old guy... so they are young. They have been trying to have kids for at least 2 years .. and NOTHING. She went to the doc, he told her she had problems with hormonal disbalance. She took care of it, so far nothing is working. Her blood work came back with all normal levels. The doctors are puzzled as well ... She went to astrologer who did a relocation chart and they stayed in relocated place for 5 months trying to have a baby. They tried accupuncture, herbal, pre-natal care, you name it. For the kicks, i did her lunar returns just to see MAYBE there is something going on. I cannot say i am an expert in pregnancies but something is up. She either wants to keep trying naturally, artificial insamination, or use embryo transfer/another woman carrying the baby if everything else fails. by the way, he's blood work is okay as well ... nothing big! He smokes doctor does not think that is the reason. i just dont like that reception between venus and saturn.

so i dont know where else to look.
very puzzling!

thanks all!
CD

FYI, you're more likely to get a better response from the forum if you post the chart.

The baby is Saturn (5th house ruler), so you want Venus to apply to it. Saturn isn't always bad, just as Jupiter isn't always good.

The skyscript tutorial mentioned before that a baby's placement in the 12th can signify a person being pregnant without their knowing about it, so maybe she will become pregnant soon and be unaware of it. The mother is in a fruitful sign and conjunct the Moon in a strong angular house, and aspecting the baby. These are pretty strong indicators.

The bad part is that both sigs (Venus/Moon) are squaring the ASC, and dad's sig has a lot of negative aspects and no reception/aspect to the mother, and a separating square from the baby (past difficulties). I think the fertility issue is pointing at dad.

I'm not sure how to check if another woman could be carrying the baby for her though (perhaps Mercury)...

Or maybe she will have to use artificial insemination vs. intercourse w/ her husband, since he doesn't seem to be very fertile. I think that is the more likely scenario.

Tanit, you are a really the good spirit of this forum- thanks for posting the charts!

This chart is really interesting! I'm sorry for misquoting the intro post- I thought it said "very young" but I am dyslectic. ))) Of course, they both are young only I thought that they were maybe in their early 20's in which case, the idea of being infertile should (IMO) be supported by some kind of medical evidence.

When it comes to her fertility- I think we've got some beautiful signs of her being fertile- her ruler is conjunct a very powerful Moon, inside Cancer (fertility), and close to the point of exaltation of Jupiter (the natural significator of children and the planet sitting on the 5th cusp). Of course, the Moon is also her co-significator which doubles the number of signs of her fertility. The physical shape of her partner is represented by the Sun- again, though in a barren sign- it is in its own sign probably suggesting a good shape. The Sun and his main ruler are in a partile sextile. Of course, his ruler is at present cadent, in a barren sign but separating from a square with Saturn, the ruler of the 5th (children), applying to its accidentally weak but essentially strong dispositor.

As for the 5th cusp- the Saturn itself does not necessarily mean a delay (after all- 34 years is a sort of delay- don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm 30 and still childless ) as we've recently had a chart of a woman asking about the possibility of becoming pregnant in the nearest future (she was, i believe 42) where Saturn was the ruler of the 5th, Sitting on the asc in Virgo (barren) but the woman had already been pregnant by the time the question was asked (more than one evidence in the chart). So, maybe the pregnancy is coming later in her reproductive age but not necessarily long after the question. Lilly suggests counting the number of houses between the Asc and the ruler of the 5th when determining the time of pregnancy and, this case, we just might be talking about the next year. Given that the Querent's ruler will perfect a sextile with the ruler of the 5th very soon, it just might be denoting a pregnancy in the near future. That said...

The skyscript tutorial mentioned before that a baby's placement in the 12th can signify a person being pregnant without their knowing about it, so maybe she will become pregnant soon and be unaware of it.

I would generally expect to see a separating aspect while, in this case, the L1 is still applying to the L5 but I do admit the retrograde Jupiter (benefic) conjunct Neptune (unaware, unknown, delusion) on the 5th cusp as well as the fact the fact that the ruler of the 5th is inside the 12th do look a bit as though soething is currently "hidden" from the Querent's sight!

Finally the Moon has got many things to do before leaving the sign and, unless the Querent is indeed already pregnant; L1 applying to L5 in more-or-less 2 degrees and the Moon applying to the L1 in roughly 2 degrees again- maybe we could be talking about a two-three months time, if not weeks!

Hi everyone,

Yes, Venus is nicely fertile, but - to recap - L5, L7 (partner), and L11 (his fifth) are all in barren signs. I would agree that the infertility at this time would be therefore more likely to be something to do with the partner.

This may also be denoted by the antiscia connection between Saturn and the 7th cusp.

The Asc conjunct Vindemiatrix would also indicate perhaps a sense of 'sorrow' or regret around this question/issue for our querent.

Southern_Sky wrote:Hi everyone,

Yes, Venus is nicely fertile, but - to recap - L5, L7 (partner), and L11 (his fifth) are all in barren signs. I would agree that the infertility at this time would be therefore more likely to be something to do with the partner.

This may also be denoted by the antiscia connection between Saturn and the 7th cusp.

The Asc conjunct Vindemiatrix would also indicate perhaps a sense of 'sorrow' or regret around this question/issue for our querent.

That and the fact that Saturn has attacked his ruler from the turned 6th- his health. There, it is partile conjunct the ruler of the 12th(turned 6th).

She has got some great signs of fertility but I do agree with you that it's the partner who might have some issues. But, at the same time- I wonder what a powerfull Sun, the ruler of his 5th might be doing inside the 5th. I would examine the radical 5th for their child but his 5th might be of great importance as well.
His ruler is barren, his Sun is barren and his 6th is in a barren sign but his physical body seems to be in a good shape and inside the 5th. With this sun and his Mars inside Gemini...does he actually want to have kids, a steady relationship and, something that I wanted to ask the last time- does he already have children?

hi all

okay he does want kids. as far as we know he does not but does anyone know if one has a kid or not? well he is smoking and going through some stress - that could indicate problems with him but as far as blood work goes everything is fine

Southern, you might have hit something in regards to sorrow....I just dont like the pregnancy itself ... saturn in virgo as a ruler of 5th is just not good and it is in cadent house...

The distance between Saturn/Desc by antiscia is 1 deg 36 .. it is a close call.. I think Lilly used 1 - 1.30 degree orb. I think it is out of the orb.

this is just wierd.. we have aspect between 1 and 5 .. plus moon .. moon and venus are fertile and aspect to saturn.. the 5th ruelr is debilitated, 7th is debilitated.. mercury ruler of his 6th is squaring mars all barren.. bad sign..

something is not right here.. either she cant get pregnant because of him or the baby will not make it to a full term.. miscarriage would bring sorrow.. no doubt.

still pondering ..

i got this from a remake of Christian astrology
If a woman ask, whether she may have a child

if a married woman ask, consider whether
the lord of the asce to be in 5th or 7th house, or
the lord of the 5th be in the asce or 7th, or
lord of the 7th in 5th or
the moon with him or good planets in the asce or with the lord of 5th or in the angles
she may conceive

well .. if i understand this correctly, moon and venus on MH, so this falls into the last scenario.

also, in "if one shall have children, yea or nay"
it says "consider whther the signs ascendating and on 5th house be fruitful"
we dont have that.

"whether the lord of the asce or the moon bein aspect with the lord of the 5th and if so, whther the lord of the 5th be strong, and also the planet or planets in 5th or in aspect with its lord.
"also if the lord be in the asce or lord of the asce be in 5th, it is a strong argument of children. if there is a TOL or collection between the significators, you may still judge that there be children but not so speedily as if it has been foreseen by former manner of judgement"

it is continued to say that "if gemini, sun, or virgo be on the asce or 5th and uranus, saturn, mars, or sun in 5th it is a strong sign of barreness"

if there is a square between infortunes to the cusp of 5th house cusp it denotes no conception unless they be strong and there are other good testimonies.
if the lord of the 5th is weak it denotes a sickly child.

this gets interesting at "whether the child shall live or die?"

the lord of 5th retrograde, combust or cadent or being in his fall or detriment, or afflicted by the lord of 8th of the house or ruler 8th from 5th house, it indicates death.
or the lord of 5th being weak or be afflicted by an evil planet in 8th or 12th unless some opposite testimonies occur, it maybe expected the child will speediy die.
if the lord of the asce bein 5th and be afflicted as above or if uranus, saturn mars or south node be in 5th esp retrograde, the denote the same

sooooo

this is bad for the baby;..cause we do have weak saturn and it is ruling the baby's 8th house is Mercury
geez i have goosebumps...this is bad!

thanks all
CD

If we don't observe modern planets, the only debilitating aspect for Saturn is the separating one from Mars (the dad). Separating aspects are of the past.

I don't see how Saturn is debilitated by being in the 12th, when it is its planetary joy. It also has slight dignity by term.

Tanit

I HOPE you are right.. well Saturn is in its Joy house i am not sure if it is worsening or strengthening Saturn.

Yes, Saturn is in its Term..

cheers
Thanks
CD