Hello Steven, Deborah and all and Merry Christmas to all

steven wrote:

Dear Friend of Traditional Astrology,
The Cazimi Press and Dr. Benjamin Dykes are pleased to announce a new astrology translation, the Logos & Light series on CD, and a sale on Bonatti and Sahl-Masha'allah!

yesterday I gave a (quick) look to the preview in this site and it looks very nice, especially the stellar list (from Mashallah).

Please notice that for what I understand stars are taken as paranatellonta, Mashallah says they should rise at Asc, or culminating at MC (or setting at DESC).

If I don't remember bad it is published in Latin together with other stellar catalogues cura Professors Pingree/Burnett - but I should have missed that one

Very interesting reading, thanks
margherita

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that my pre-sale for Persian Nativities vol. I and the final sale on Bonatti is almost over. There are great savings through January 10, and you can read excerpts from the book here on Skyscript (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/persian1.html) or on my site (www.bendykes.com).

The first volume of Persian Nativities contains a special book called the Book of Aristotle, by Masha'allah, and a new translation of Abu 'Ali.

After this sale, I anticipate that Bonatti will be all sold out. There are only a few copies left at reduced prices.

Best,
Ben Dykes

Ben wrote:
After this sale, I anticipate that Bonatti will be all sold out. There are only a few copies left at reduced prices.

What I feared would happen now seems to be coming to pass.

We have Bonatus for four or five years. What will we have in the future?

Prof. Dykes says he will not reprint. Will he find another to do so?

Or will he release his copyright so that anyone may reprint?

If the answer to both questions is no, then after a few years of being available, Bonatus will be lost for a century. No one will translate the book anew given the Dykes translation. And no one may print the Dykes without the permission of Prof. Dykes himself, as copyright will not expire until sometime after the year 2100.

I urge Prof. Dykes to ensure the continuing availability of his translations, beyond a mere few years.

My apologies for the interruption, but the preservation of knowledge is a serious matter.

David R. Roell

i was actually amazed at how long this translation was made available. The consensus is that if more people would have purchased the translation sooner, more copies would have been printed. Since people shied away from the price, the stock of books lingered and it was not a profitable venture.
maybe next time a translation is made available more people will purchase them, so more copies can be made.

personally, i bought multiple copies.

Shied away, didn't have the money, couldn't quite afford a month's salary - or more - in some parts of the world.

I can appreciate the work Ben put into this, but I hope that at some point he'll either release it as a PDF paid download at a lower price, or give permission for someone else to publish it in paperback - or some solution that can keep it available.

It's too important a work to lose, and as Dave said, we'll have it for a few years - then it'll be gone again. Much as I understand what an undertaking that kind of translation is, and that Ben certainly deseves compensation for it, I don't want to see it lost to the world.

I worried that the work would be priced over the heads of many students, and tried to encourage Ben to think about a paperback option at the start. Maybe he?ll do that later. It?s his work, so it?s his decision to make. Now I think he probably made the right decision anyway. The reality is that this is a very significant work and Ben made a very major commitment to its translation, so the cost was high, for him as well as us.
I wouldn't rule out the prospect of Rob Hand releasing a translation of his own sometime, but let?s not worry about ?knowledge being lost?. Bonatti?s work has and will be around in Latin, and the only complete English edition we currently have is ?out there? because of Ben?s efforts. Let?s just keep this guy in coffee!

Deb wrote:I worried that the work would be priced over the heads of many students, and tried to encourage Ben to think about a paperback option at the start. Maybe he?ll do that later. It?s his work, so it?s his decision to make. Now I think he probably made the right decision anyway. The reality is that this is a very significant work and Ben made a very major commitment to its translation, so the cost was high, for him as well as us.
I wouldn't rule out the prospect of Rob Hand releasing a translation of his own sometime, but let?s not worry about ?knowledge being lost?. Bonatti?s work has and will be around in Latin, and the only complete English edition we currently have is ?out there? because of Ben?s efforts. Let?s just keep this guy in coffee!

This is the old "town / gown" dispute, as old as time itself. Our host has identified herself as academic. If it's not already obvious, I am a merchant. ("Pile 'em high! Sell 'em cheap!" is our motto.) For those who doubt the eternal reality of caste, a poke around the seedier areas of any university town will leave no doubts. One distinguishes his caste not on the basis of education (I have a pair of Bachelors & could easily have made Ph.D.), nor by profession, nor by raw IQ (mine is 150-ish) but rather, by temper.

While a merchant's primary goal is to Take the Money & Run, we can be persuaded to toil in the less lucrative gardens of academe. In such settings, we do best with the cooperation of bona fide academics. We so rarely get that cooperation.

Not only can knowledge be lost, the fact of its being lost is its usual fate, as any glance at, say, the Ashmolean library will attest. Most of the volumes in that great hall have sat ignored for centuries. Should the building be destroyed, much that is unique will be lost with it. Which, as all buildings are ultimately destroyed, will be the fate of most of the volumes at the Ashmolean. (Computerized scans? Please don't make me laugh. That stuff is beyond fragile.)

Knowledge, like the blood in our veins, must be constantly renewed to exist at all. Once circulation stops, death ensues. There is, I regret to say, a modern example:

Robert Jansky, (1932-1981). Died of a heart attack while travelling, in southern California, aged 48. Left behind a massive series of books, only one of which, alas, had its copyright assigned to a proper publisher: Astrology, Nutrition & Health. Which is still in print. All his other works, including one on eclipses, have been out of print since the day he died, because nobody knows who owns his copyrights. More than a decade ago I was on the phone with the late Joan McEvers (a friend of Jansky's) who gave me as much information as she knew. The law says that copyright is presumed & will endure until 75 years after the author's death. Which will be 2056. I used to get a lot of requests for Jansky's stuff, but it's been years since the last one. The reason? All the people who knew him, who knew of him have, like McEvers herself, passed away. I in fact have a number of his books in my library. They are, for the most part, poorly printed & poorly bound, which was typical of self-published astrology books of the period. At some point I want to haul them out & give them a once-over. It might could be that Jansky should go back in print, and, if so, I think I would chance it. But it might could be that Jansky, with the benefit of hindsight, was not so hot in cosmic terms & can be left to moulder. Jansky's ultimate fate might just come down to the head on my shoulders. Which is a slender thread, indeed. Such is how knowledge is lost!

Years ago Rob Hand mentioned to me his desire to translate Bonatus. Rob thought it would be easy. But that was years ago. I doubt it will ever happen, and for a number of reasons.

First, in his life, Rob has always gone from project to project. Good Sagittarian that he is. His ARHAT project was nearly a decade ago. He has produced no new titles in many years.

Second, Rob is now 67 years old. I have no knowledge of his financial situation, but it seems to me that he has no pension (having never worked for anyone who might have offered him one), he likely draws little Social Security (for the same reasons), he is past the point in life where he could expect an inheritance. He has recently graduated / is about to graduate from Catholic University in Washington DC & has presumably incurred considerable expenses thereby. He married a few years ago (for the first time) and it might be that his wife has means. I do not know, but I would hope so, as, otherwise, we must presume the man is broke & must earn his living, just like us young squirts. Which might be the reason why Rob travels, ceaselessly, from one conference to the next. They're gigs. He's getting paid. If I'm right, Rob is never going to have the "retirement" time needed for translation projects.

The third reason why Rob is not likely to translate Bonatus is that Prof. Dykes has already done so. Why should Rob put out the (not inconsiderable) effort to make his own translation, when Prof. Dykes might, at any moment, announce a reprint of his edition, coupled with a tour of all the astro shows to sell it.

A month or two before Prof. Dykes published his Bonatus, he wrote me & asked my opinion. I suggested he break the book into smaller volumes, such as has been done with Morin - quite successfully, I might add. This is still my advice. Should he use print on demand & make the result available through Amazon, he is guaranteed $200, perhaps $300 per month, in perpetuity, in exchange for virtually no effort. (In fact, things can be arranged such that it requires no effort at all, and I would be happy to pass on the details.)

Merchants & academics need each other. But so long as there is mutual hatred (and there is), reconciliation will remain difficult, and knowledge, its very existence, will hang in the balance.

Dave

I thought you cared about the importance of the work? Now the conversation all seems to have turned towards you being a merchant.

When I made my comment about the possibility of Rob Hand still proceeding with this, it was based on a conversation I had with him personally, subsequent to the publication of Ben's work, so it wasn't based upon empty or unlikely speculation. Of course he may change his mind, but we can be confident that Rob Hand - one of our great astrological treasures - is still making time for translation projects.
In this forum everyone is entitled to an opinion and since you raised the discussion then you ought to allow for others to have their opinions too, without assuming that they take the same perspective on things that you do. Mutual hatred between merchants and academics might be your experience and outlook, but it's not mine. I don't just speak from the experience of being an author, but also as someone who put a lot of time, effort and resources into obtaining the rights to keep historical titles available, (including some that you have put on your list), and who has not forgtotten what it feels like to be passionately drawn to studying astrology whilst lacking the obvious means to do so.

Our host has identified herself as academic.

If you ever have, or ever do, find me identifying myself as anything other than an astrologer, then that might have been a fair comment to make.

And we might want to remember we're just gone - not even really gone - a full moon conjunct a retrograde Mars opposing the Sun and Venus.

Which I've been seeing play out EVERYWHERE since the cazimi. Real life, forums that are nuts have gone nuttier, forums that were sane have been stricken by rampant insanity.

Except here.

Take a deep breath. I think everyone here is passionate about astrology, else - why be here?

Deb wrote:I thought you cared about the importance of the work? Now the conversation all seems to have turned towards you being a merchant.

It's not a question of merchants or academics. Ben Dykes has published books of great importance. He has taken on the responsibility of the knowledge contained therein. If he was not aware of this, then he should have refrained from publishing. He should have let someone else have the honor. I am, frankly, speechless that he would casually toss them aside, as if he personally owned Bonatus & could do with him what he wished. Imagine if Shakespeare were treated in this fashion.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Dave of Maryland wrote: Ben Dykes has published books of great importance. He has taken on the responsibility of the knowledge contained therein. If he was not aware of this, then he should have refrained from publishing. He should have let someone else have the honor. I am, frankly, speechless that he would casually toss them aside, as if he personally owned Bonatus & could do with him what he wished.

He does, however, own his translation of Bonatti, and can friggin eat it if he so chose. Now, is 75 years too long for copyright? I'd say so, but I also think that a well-defined and regulated copyright is good for innovation and commerce. He has every right to be properly recompensed for his work. If someone wants to translate it, they should go learn some Latin and get started; honestly, it is not that hard to do, it just takes much time.

I am, frankly, speechless that he would casually toss them aside

Dave, frankly, you seem to be anything but speechless.
It is pure, unfounded speculation to suggest that he would "casually toss them aside", as if Ben Dykes doesn't have as much concern about the works of Bonatti as you do.

I don't understand what Shakespeare has got to do with this ...