Some astrologers are firmly claiming that the 1917 chart for Soviet Union is no longer valid after 1991. My experience with Alexander Marr's rectification for 8 Nov 1917 19.00 UT, Leningrad, and testing this chart with primary directions in Topocentric system clearly shows that this chart is very valid.
For the Moscow metro subway blast today at 7.56 am LT there are NO LESS than 10 appropriate primary aspects in Topocentric system:
Asc 120 Nep 1'
MC 60 Mars 3'
Nep 60 VIII 3'
Moon 120 VIII 1'
Mars 60 Sat 3'
Sat 90 VIII 4'
Mer 180 Sat 8'
Sat 180 Mer 11'
XII 180 Asc 6'
Plu 180 Sat 11'
PSSR:
Moon 180 VIII 10'
Mer 90 VIII 9'

Thanks Isaac,

Here is the BBC news link to the incident: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8592190.stm

At least 35 people have been killed after two female suicide bombers blew themselves up on Moscow Metro trains in the morning rush hour, officials say.

Twenty-three died in the first blast at 0756 (0356 GMT) as a train stood at the central Lubyanka station, beneath the offices of the FSB intelligence agency.

About 40 minutes later, a second explosion ripped through a train at Park Kultury, leaving another 12 dead.

The FSB said it was likely a group from the North Caucasus was responsible.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Moscow says no group has yet said it carried out the attacks, but past suicide bombings in the capital have been carried out by or blamed on Islamist rebels fighting for independence in Chechnya.

Source: BBC News Website: 29/03/2010

The Soviet Union ended!! is Dead!!
The actual Natal Chart that works is:
Russia:Dec 25, 1991; 17:19:40 GMT Moscu- ASC=21?06'Leo;MH=3?27'Taurus

Solar Return:Dec 25, 2009; 02:11:19 GMT, Moscu; ASC=19?03'Scorpio Square Mars=19?34'Leo!!!!!!! and Saturn/Pluto=ASC!!!!
If you progess MH Solar ( 1?=1 day), today, The ASC oposite exact Solars Mars!!!
The last Lunar Return:March 27, 2010;15:44:51 GMT Moscu, ASC=05?50'Libra and MH=08?03'Cancer, Sun Square Pluto and Exact Mid Point conjuntion Radix DSC RUSSIA=21?08' Aquarius!!!!
Regards
Mario

The Soviet Union ended!! is Dead!!

The actual Natal Chart that works is: Russia:Dec 25, 1991; 17:19:40 GMT Moscu- ASC=21?06'Leo;MH=3?27'Taurus

Hello Mario,

I haven't studied the national chart for either the Soviet Union or Russian Federation so I cannot comment on your delineation. However, its worth stating that many astrologers think more than one national chart can resonate to events. For example, in his Book of World Horoscopes Nicholas Campion favours the 1801 chart for the United Kingdom even though there are later charts such as 1922 and 1927.

I have also spoken to people who still look at the 1871 chart for Germany even though the second Reich is long gone.

I personally, favour the last chart for the United Kingdom (1927) but I would hesitate to state earlier charts were 'dead'. I do think important historical events carry a resonance that cannot be dismissed by later legal developments. That is probably why the 1066 chart for England still seems to work quite well after nearly 1000 years!

For example look at the much debated USA chart? Most astrologers still favour some variation of the July 4th 1776 chart even though the United States was not in existence at that point. If one followed your logic the only valid chart for the USA would be the last one ie the Federal USA chart. However, not many astrologers actually do that. Of course you are entitled to think they are wrong!

If any members have the time it would be interesting to check this incident in terms of the Aries Ingress chart for Moscow.

Mark

MarkC wrote: If any members have the time it would be interesting to check this incident in terms of the Aries Ingress chart for Moscow.

Well, this is an awful story. I can imagine very well what is a bomb in the underground at the rush hour.

Anyway if you cast the Ingress for Moscow Mars is almost glued at MC at 1 Leo- the lord of the Ingress, and ruler of the 6th and 7th house- enemies.

Moreover I have another idea. The last visible eclipse in Russia is the one of the 1st August 2008.

It is still active because its duration was 2:13 minutes.

In the following I follow Cardano explication to Ptolemy in the comment to Tetrabiblos - I've now on my desktop.

The maximum obscuration is 13:09, ie in the 9th house. Cardano- following Ptolemy - says that if the eclipse falls near the MC effects will start between the fourth and the eighth month.
Let's say 6 and so we are january-february 2009 - then the effects will last 2 years and 2 months, but mostly in the second part according Cardano, ie 26/3=8 months, so from October 2009 to June 2010.

So Mars - lord of the year- now is around the eclipse- some degrees apart, but it is passing to and fro, and it's just finished the station. This is a very peculiar moment.

Paulus Alexandrinus:

"All the stationary stars are wicked, both during the first and the second station. But the star of Mars when is stationary with the Sun by a trine or a square is very dangerous."

Where is Mars in the Ingress chart? In partile trine with the Sun.

margherita

I'm one who can't make much sense out of national charts in general, especially for defunct political entities. But my big problem here is with:

My experience with Alexander Marr's rectification for 8 Nov 1917 19.00 UT, Leningrad, and testing this chart with primary directions in Topocentric system clearly shows that this chart is very valid.
For the Moscow metro subway blast today at 7.56 am LT there are NO LESS than 10 appropriate primary aspects in Topocentric system:
Asc 120 Nep 1'
MC 60 Mars 3'
Nep 60 VIII 3'
Moon 120 VIII 1'
Mars 60 Sat 3'
Sat 90 VIII 4'
Mer 180 Sat 8'
Sat 180 Mer 11'
XII 180 Asc 6'
Plu 180 Sat 11'
PSSR:
Moon 180 VIII 10'
Mer 90 VIII 9'

What makes directed ASC trine Neptune, MC sextile Mars, Neptune sextile 8th house cusp, etc. so appropriate and pertinent? I don't see the validity of listing all these with an unexplained assumption that they are somehow relevant to metro bombs. It's all vague enough so as to easily describe a deadly nuclear power plant meltdown, a disease epidemic or a period of plane crashes. It's hard to imagine anyone making a focused prediction from this.

Well, this is an awful story. I can imagine very well what is a bomb in the underground at the rush hour.

Hello Margherita,

Yes we can get so caught up in our pet astrological theories we sometimes miss the unfolding human tragedy in this story. What a horrible death. Just imagine the fear those people that still have to commute on these trains will be feeling from now on.

Anyway if you cast the Ingress for Moscow Mars is almost glued at MC at 1 Leo- the lord of the Ingress, and ruler of the 6th and 7th house- enemies.

Moreover I have another idea. The last visible eclipse in Russia is the one of the 1st August 2008.

Thanks for doing that. Very interesting. I have yet to emulate Andrew's wonderful ability to put charts on here for us. However, its on my moderator to do list...

Mark

Kirk wrote:I'm one who can't make much sense out of national charts in general, especially for defunct political entities. But my big problem here is with:

My experience with Alexander Marr's rectification for 8 Nov 1917 19.00 UT, Leningrad, and testing this chart with primary directions in Topocentric system clearly shows that this chart is very valid.
For the Moscow metro subway blast today at 7.56 am LT there are NO LESS than 10 appropriate primary aspects in Topocentric system:
Asc 120 Nep 1'
MC 60 Mars 3'
Nep 60 VIII 3'
Moon 120 VIII 1'
Mars 60 Sat 3'
Sat 90 VIII 4'
Mer 180 Sat 8'
Sat 180 Mer 11'
XII 180 Asc 6'
Plu 180 Sat 11'
PSSR:
Moon 180 VIII 10'
Mer 90 VIII 9'

What makes directed ASC trine Neptune, MC sextile Mars, Neptune sextile 8th house cusp, etc. so appropriate and pertinent? I don't see the validity of listing all these with an unexplained assumption that they are somehow relevant to metro bombs. It's all vague enough so as to easily describe a deadly nuclear power plant meltdown, a disease epidemic or a period of plane crashes. It's hard to imagine anyone making a focused prediction from this.

All of these aspects are perfectly fit for the event:
Today Russia observes day of mourning in bombing aftermath. Neptune and Saturn symbololize mourning, we have here 3 aspects with cusp 8 ? with Neptune, Saturn and the Moon (the populace). Yes, I know that in traditional astrology no one considering primary aspects with house cusps, but this is of the great mistakes in traditional astrology. My analysis with over 20000 events shows beyond any doubt that such aspects are valid, that was also the conclusion of Vendel Polich and Alexander Marr. Mercury in opposition to Saturn (twice!)- isn't appropriate aspect? Mercury = transport, Saturn= death, fear, hindrances.
Pluto in opposition to Saturn- Pluto= mass catastrophes, brutality. In St. Petersburg, for example, 3 metro stations were shut as the result of a bomb scare- fear is everywhere.
Mars/ Saturn is an aspect that indicate a general misery,
You should know that usually, there is no more than one or two appropriate primary directions, 3-4 appropriate aspects appears only seldom but accumulation of 10 aspects, all of them in the same theme AND with so tight orbs AND all of them in Ptolemaic aspects ? this occurs only once in 100 years, maybe even once in 500 years. In addition, we have 2 additional aspects with cusp 8 in PSSR method.
I was quite surprise to read this respond from you, had it was someone new in the forum I would say to him that he should go back to the elementary school of astrological symbolism.
To my regret I didn?t saw these extremely rare accumulation of aspects beforehand. Had I saw this, maybe I would not be able to predict metro bombs, but surly mass death.
Re "I'm one who can't make much sense out of national charts in general, especially for defunct political entities" You should read Marr's book Political Astrology and see not only how his solid methods are applying to national charts but also how prediction is possible from these charts.

MarkC wrote: Thanks for doing that. Very interesting. I have yet to emulate Andrew's wonderful ability to put charts on here for us. However, its on my moderator to do list...

Voila...
Just please, as I wrote above I don't use the bi-wheel method of putting a whatever eclipse on the ingress.

I follow Ptolemy method used by all Renaissance authors. I chose the eclipse of the 1st August 2008 because it's :
1) the last visible eclipse;
2) it's active at the current moment according the position in the chart of the syzygy and the duration of the eclipse.

margherita

MarkC wrote:

The Soviet Union ended!! is Dead!!

The actual Natal Chart that works is: Russia:Dec 25, 1991; 17:19:40 GMT Moscu- ASC=21?06'Leo;MH=3?27'Taurus

Hello Mario,

I haven't studied the national chart for either the Soviet Union or Russian Federation so I cannot comment on your delineation. However, its worth stating that many astrologers think more than one national chart can resonate to events. For example, in his Book of World Horoscopes Nicholas Campion favours the 1801 chart for the United Kingdom even though there are later charts such as 1922 and 1927.

I have also spoken to people who still look at the 1871 chart for Germany even though the second Reich is long gone.

I personally, favour the last chart for the United Kingdom (1927) but I would hesitate to state earlier charts were 'dead'. I do think important historical events carry a resonance that cannot be dismissed by later legal developments. That is probably why the 1066 chart for England still seems to work quite well after nearly 1000 years!

For example look at the much debated USA chart? Most astrologers still favour some variation of the July 4th 1776 chart even though the United States was not in existence at that point. If one followed your logic the only valid chart for the USA would be the last one ie the Federal USA chart. However, not many astrologers actually do that. Of course you are entitled to think they are wrong!

If any members have the time it would be interesting to check this incident in terms of the Aries Ingress chart for Moscow.

Mark

I absolutely agree with you. Alexander Marr in his book Political Astrology demonstrated 2 workable charts for USA: the 4 July 1776 chart and the 4 March 1789 chart and he told me that could be some additional workable charts. It is not illogical to see several workable charts for the same state. It is quite plausible that 25 Dec 1991 should be also a workable chart for Russia but that by no means demolishes the previous chart.
In human being, we have 2 charts: the Pre- Natal Epoch and the radix and both of them are workable charts for the same person.

steven wrote:Nicely done margherita!
Steven

Very honored to hear these words from a master of the art like you

margherita

Hello Issac
I am not demolishing, the radix of the Soviet Union, just think that to have credibility as Astrologers, our astrology must be credible, and if for example we present a group of people argued that part of a fact that does not exist, as is the Soviet Union, it is certain to get a response, you can not make conjectures about something that does not exist, that is why astrologers to be credible as our analysis must start on a credible and not speculation or conjectures astrology, which mathematically may close, but reality takes away validity because there is no Soviet Union.