I was reading a post here on skyscript that discussed mundane events, and one part of it dealt with universal significators.

I.e, Mercury for transportation. I can see where the use of Mercury to transports, as planet of messengers, comes from, but Abu Mashar uses the Moon, not Mercury.

Still, through out astrological literature there are a lot of associations that seems rather odd, as for example, Lilly using signs, by their secondary movement order from Aries ahead, as co-significators for houses 1, 2, 3... and then, a Lot related on Al-Biruni's book page 67 of R. Ramsay Wright translation, 'Book of Instruction in the Elements in the Art of Astrology' that states the Death of Brothers should be calculated as follows:

Asc + 10 Gemini - Sun

At first, these may invite modern aproaches like sign = houses... = rulers, but the reason behind this 'lot' and analogies can be other than the apparent at first sight (for example, Gemini is the 12th from Cancer, domicile of Moon, which have it's joy on 3rd). Anyway, the discussion from this is not the reason for this topic as of now... although I welcome opinions in this regard.

My doubt steams from the usage of universal significators, which for some matters is quite clearly repeated in tradition, but for others, not so much. The other day, I was trying to calculate an almuten for siblings, and I was doing such in this manner:

Part of brothers + ruler of part of brothers + cusp of 3rd house + ruler of 3rd house + planets in 3rd house. The final touch would be a universal significator for brothers, and in this part I got really confused, and was not able to determine a planet fit. If it was for marriage of men, it would be easier, as I would just have to join Venus and Moon to the calculation.

So, when there's doubt there are several approaches we could take, i.e, the caldaic planet assigned to 3rd, Mars (supported by Frawley), the Moon as the 3rd is her joy, Jupiter, that seems to relate to brothers through it's arabic part, or even Mercury, natural significator for children (and why is Mercury for children, not Venus?). So, I could not decide.

The same is true of friends, should we use the Sun (caldaic) or Jupiter (joy)? What about diseases, to Hermes this should be taken from Mars and Saturn arc (on it's arabic part) but some ancient authorities, as Al Biruni explains, uses Mercury to Mars arc (why those two, because Mercury has it's joy in the 1st, and Mars on 6th?).

What about when the planet has no joy in said house, like 10th, do we take the caldaic planet or use the one that has analogy to it (Sun, as MC is it's culmination)? And if we use caldaic significators, what of Saturn, that would then have autority over life itself!?

Or should we be looking at other criterias/analogies for a planet to be fit as universal significators? Colors, synodic cycles?

Right now, some of significations I use for the 12th houses:

1st (Life) - Lot of Fortune, Hyleg
2nd (Property) - Jupiter
3rd (Siblings/journeys) - Moon (?)
4th (Father) - Sun by day, Saturn by night
5th (Children) - Mercury (?)
6th (Diseases) - Mars (?) Mercury (?)
7th (Marriage) - Moon and Venus to men, Sun and Saturn to women
8th (Death) - Out of sect malefic
9th (Religion/journeys) - Here, Jupiter is prefered for religion, but journeys seems related to Mercury/Moon both on 3rd and 9th house matters
10th (Mother/rise) - Sun and Moon has natural analogy to the matter of this house, Lot of Spirit (??). Moon and Venus to mothers.
11th - ?
12th - Saturn (?) Mars (???)

I welcome opinions and quotes .

Hello PFN,
The astrological meanings of the houses came much later in the astrological tradition (like the concept of houses itself). In ancient Babylonian times, we have astrological related tablets that list the planets in the sign but no ascendant (that closely resemble a ?natal chart? though it was not really a chart, rather table listing the positions of the planets). The concept of houses came relatively late in the history of astrology following the discovery of (and accurate technique in locating) the ascendant.

The meanings of the 12 houses may have come from numerological significance of the houses, the geometrical positions of the houses (whether aspecting the ascendant or not), primary and secondary motions of the spheres, angular/succedent/cadent positions of the houses, Chaldean order of the planets, associations with the Thema Mundi, places where planets find Joy, etc. It could be that the houses were given meanings that later were associated to the planets but I think it is more probable that the planets gave their astrological associations to the houses. Do remember that the houses that aspect the ascendant are houses of relationships i.e. they represent the people who are related to the natives in his life.
Below are listed the general/universal associations of planets to houses via:
1. Chaldean Order of the Planets (1st house = Saturn, 2nd house = Jupiter, 3rd house = Mars, etc.).
2. Joys of the planets (1st house = Mercury, 3rd house = Moon, 5th house = Venus, etc.).
3. Associations with the Thema Mundi. The Thema Mundi is the hypothetical World chart that has Cancer rising at night (as Sun is in the second house). Hence, the ?universal? ascendant of a house is Cancer and Moon and Jupiter are the universal rulers of the first house (as domicile and exalted rulers of the sign Cancer). This makes Moon the universal ruler of any chart e.g. Moon is always the co-ruler of the querent in horary astrology (besides the common reason cited for having Moon as co-ruler of ascendant due to her sphere being nearest to earth).

1st House: Saturn (Chaldean order), Mercury (Joy), Moon (domicile ruler of Cancer the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s first house) and Jupiter (exalted ruler of Cancer the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s first house).

The first house (being the first angular house ? the most important house) represents the native and birth. Saturn (the limiting vessel of the soul that enters through ascendant i.e. the body or we could say the imprisonment of the soul in the body as it is born into the material world and Saturn may represent the critical time of raising an infant when he/she was born in ancient times), Mercury (the first house as helm, the universal pilot of the body/soul), Moon and Jupiter (both have been associated with birth and pregnancy), etc. We could also see why both Moon and Mercury are taken as the indicators of manners and their dispositors together with the dispositor of Ascendant as characters of the soul (very first house thing) by medieval astrologers (see for example Johanness Schoener).

2nd House: Jupiter (Chaldean order), Sun (domicile ruler of Leo the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s second house).

Jupiter (universal significator of substance ) and Sun (the luminary that is usually very supportive to the native as the second house is supportive to the native via its primary motion). As this house does not aspect the first, the ancients did not assign ?people? to the second house i.e. he people that have universal associations with Jupiter or Sun). Furthermore, the second house is not considered bad (as other houses that are in aversion to or do not aspect the first house because the planets associated with the second are both good planets viz. Sun and Jupiter.

3rd House: Mars (Chaldean order), Moon (Joy of the third house), Mercury (domicile and exalted ruler of Virgo the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s third house).

Mars (brothers, sometimes referred to as elder brothers or brothers at arms i.e. those that will draw their weapons to defend you), Moon (the house of travel especially short distance and daily travels, daily events, neighbours, familiars, the temple priestess, the goddess, the magic that is related to ?temple? magic, dreams, etc.), Mercury (can also mean short distance travel, can mean brothers ? sometimes referred o younger brothers as Mercury generally signify young boys, letters, communication,...). As his house aspects the ascendant via sextile, we take the universal meaning of brothers for Mars as sextile is a harmonious aspect (though weak).

4th House: Sun (Chaldean order), Venus (domicile ruler of Libra the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s fourth house) and Saturn (exalted ruler of Libra the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s fourth house).

Sun (roots and parents, esp. Father, we take the universal significator of Father for Sun as the fourth aspects the first by a strong aspect i.e. square and the fourth represents the lowest house i.e. where one comes from), Venus (home and outcome as Venus is the planet that gives pleasures, unifies and reconciles disputes), Saturn (the dirt, the ground, buried things, one?s graveyard). It is interesting that we have the fourth house being the lowest house (which represents where one comes from) and we have the 3 planets (Sun, Venus, Saturn) that represent parents (Sun and Saturn father and Venus mother). The ancient Hellenistic astrologers did assign both parents to the fourth house which later given more to the father (Sun and Saturn).

5th House: Venus (Chaldean order), Venus (Joy of the fifth house), Mars (domicile ruler of Scorpio the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s fifth house).

Venus (pleasures, pleasures, pleasures!, as we have double Venus here and the fifth is trine to the first!, gifts, honours, affairs). The fifth aspects the first, hence, it must also indicate persons that have relationship to us. In this case it will be children as children give pleasures to the native. Venus and Mars give significations of childbirth (and the hardship that comes with it), the carrying of child i.e. the labour of pregnancy, the act of procreation (sexual act itself with or without pleasures), corrupted pleasures, etc.

6th House: Mercury (Chaldean order), Mars (Joy of the sixth house), Jupiter (domicile ruler of Sagittarius the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s sixth house).

Mercury (servility as Mercury makes things small and subject the native to the ones who are more powerful than the native, in Hellenistic astrology, Mercury is used for the Lot of Necessity ? what one is subjected to), Mars (with Mercury gives illness, labours, bad luck, etc.), Jupiter (with Mars give labours that benefit the native as the sixth is trine to the tenth). This house does not aspect the ascendant, hence, it also represent others that have no relationship to the native but are the native?s inferiors e.g. slaves, employees, small animals, etc. All of which have associations with Mercury and Mars.

7th House: Moon (Chaldean order), Saturn (domicile ruler of Capricorn the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s seventh house), Mars (exalted ruler of Capricorn the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s seventh house).

The seventh directly aspects the first by opposition, hence, it represents others that we connect directly with. Moon (other people that we deal with on daily basis especially those that are not related by blood), Moon with Saturn (the women and marriage as she represents wife and relationships but with Saturn represents the relationship that binds and restricts i.e. legal marriage), Mars (contentions and open enemies).

8th House: Saturn (Chaldean order), Saturn (domicile ruler of Aquarius the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s eighth house).

Double Saturn! and the eighth house does not aspect the first ? death (what else!) and dead people (ancestors, old and dead people!), debt (the bond that nobody likes), taxes (we have to give the taxmen to Saturn as they are evil! They take away our money i.e. our life! Jesting...he he he).

9th House: Jupiter (Chaldean order), Sun (Joy of the ninth house), Jupiter (domicile ruler of Pisces the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s ninth house), Venus (exalted ruler of Pisces the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s ninth house).

A very good house indeed as it trines the first and Sun, Jupiter and Venus are all good planets associated with the ninth house! Jupiter (voyage, long trips), Jupiter with Sun (religion, clear insight, wisdom and foresight). Venus with Jupiter (the obedience to religion and faith, the priests, monks and nuns). Some associate Kings to the ninth house (may be this is because of the associations of Sun and Jupiter but I think we should reserve this to the theocratic king like King Solomon). The other type of Kings (in ancient times) are the military type of Kings which should be given to the tenth house.

10th House: Mars (Chaldean order), Mars (domicile ruler of Aries the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s tenth house), Sun (exalted ruler of Aries the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s tenth house).

Mars/Mars/Sun (action, praxis, profession, what one does). Sun/Mars (King and as mentioned before the King who had to fight for his kingdom, even president as he has to fight to be elected!, your boss ? nobody likes their boss!)

11th House: Sun (Chaldean order), Jupiter (Joy of the ninth house), Venus (domicile ruler of Taurus the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s eleventh house), Moon (exalted ruler of Taurus the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s eleventh house).

The eleventh is related to the first via sextile. This is a very special house as we have both luminaries and both benefics associated with it! This is probably the reason why some ancient astrologers put this as the best house and the house that does only good to whatever planet that is in it (the most favourable house and not necessarily the most powerful). Sun/Jupiter/Venus (good spirit, patron, friends or patron-like friends), Sun and Moon (your societies and associations as Moon represent the public and Sun your contribution).

12th House: Venus (Chaldean order), Saturn (Joy of the twelfth house), Mercury (domicile ruler of Gemini the universal sign of the Thema Mundi?s twelfth house).

Saturn (imprisonment, hospitals, recluse, hermit), Mercury and Saturn (evil agents i.e. evil spirits that whisper impure thoughts that lead one to sins (corrupted Venus or Venus and Saturn). Saturn/Mercury/Venus (witchcraft and witchcraft has always been associated with females).

We can see here that the significations of the houses may result from the planets (or maybe partially vice versa). The planets use in the calculations of the many Lots (that even Al-Biruni complaint) are however quite difficult to fathom as we don't really know what the ancients were thinking when they concocted them.

From PFN:

What about diseases, to Hermes this should be taken from Mars and Saturn arc (on it's arabic part) but some ancient authorities, as Al Biruni explains, uses Mercury to Mars arc (why those two, because Mercury has it's joy in the 1st, and Mars on 6th?).

Hermes uses Mars and Saturn as both are malefics and we usually associate Mars to acute illness and Saturn to chronic illness. AlBiruni uses Mercury and Mars because maybe these two planets are associated to the sixth house of illness (as you can see in the discussion under sixth hiouse above). Maybe Hermes Lot should be used with illnesses that befall the native not of his own doing as both malefics are used whereas Al-Biruni's Lot with illnesses that befall the native due to native's own doing or excesses as Mercury and Saturn are also related to the 12th and 1st houses (the native and his sins).

From PFN:

Mercury for transportation. I can see where the use of Mercury to transports, as planet of messengers, comes from, but Abu Mashar uses the Moon, not Mercury.

Both Moon and Mercury are valid universal significators for transportation (Moon being the fastest and Mercury does have association with transport). Maybe we should use Moon for animated transport (camels, horses, etc. as the ancients did use these animals for transportation) and the ancients usually assign fugitives and animated lost objects to Moon. Mercury then sould be used for other types of transport (like cars).

From PFN:

So, when there's doubt there are several approaches we could take, i.e, the caldaic planet assigned to 3rd, Mars (supported by Frawley), the Moon as the 3rd is her joy,

Mars and Mercury may both represent brothers (as discussed above). Usually Mars is given to elder brothers (and brothers at arms) and Mercury to younger brothers (in association with young boys).

From PFN:

Jupiter, that seems to relate to brothers through it's arabic part, or even Mercury, natural significator for children (and why is Mercury for children, not Venus?). So, I could not decide.

Maybe Jupiter was used for "brothers" when they were looking for patron-like brothers (your band of brothers) and not blood related brothers.
Why indeed Mercury for children - maybe the ancients (being bias to sons) preferred sons (= young boys = Mercury) and not daughters (= young girls = Venus). Some astrologers do take Jupiter as children are the greatest gift from God.

From PFN:

The same is true of friends, should we use the Sun (caldaic) or Jupiter (joy)?

I will have to add more confusion to this. The eleventh house is the house of patron-like friends and not your everyday friends. Your friends and colleagues that you see on daily basis are your familiars and familiars (neighbours, colleagues, etc.) are given to third house!

From PFN:

What about when the planet has no joy in said house, like 10th, do we take the caldaic planet or use the one that has analogy to it (Sun, as MC is it's culmination)?

As you can see under the discussion on tenth house, two planets are associated with the tenth house viz. Mars and Sun. Perhaps we should give reputation and public status to Sun and praxis (what one does) to Mars?

Thanks astrojin, for the incredible informative post. I already though that there was no easy way out for this, but some of the info you provided I was oblivious to, and that shall be very helpfull for me.

Lots of thanks