I am seriously considering moving to another apartment in a city not too far away. I have really strange, creepy neighbors (espcially one crazy old gossip and trouble maker) so I am very eager to move somewhere else.
I am the sun in the 11th h of hopes and wishes, not especially dignified essentially. The ruler of the 4th, my present apartment, is ruled by Mars in Virgo on the cusp of the 2nd.
The significator of the 7th, the other apartment, is ruled by saturn in 28 virgo, 2 degrees from his exaltation. Does this indicate that the other place improves in someway? Exaltations can mean something is exagerated? I notice too, that there is a NeptuneRX in the 7th house. Illusions about the place?
The moon, my co-sig, is in the 7th house and applying to saturn within 3 degrees. I forgot to notice the aspect-- I know, that IS important.
Ok, I looked at the chart agian. The aspect is an inconjunct, so I think I wont be moving.
I can't seem to post the chart, so here is the chart info:
30 June 2010
9:14 am
Gig Harbor, WA USA
122w35, 47n
Thank you for any comments that may help in fine- tuning my understanding of the chart.

Hi tanit,
Thank you for the information, and for posting the chart for me.
I'll mull over this some..

Hi astrolabe999 - I was looking back on some horaries I remember that were a little similar and thought I'd reference them, in case you might find anything useful for your chart. I am surprised that a professional horary astrologer hasn't written an article on moving questions yet, with aphorisms from the greats, since it's a common topic (or maybe they have but I haven't read them yet).


Should I sell house and move or stay put?
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5333

Should I sell the house and move or stay put? (different chart)
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5208

Moving in with someone
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5321

Stay or Go Question
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4945

In Detriment When Wanting Change
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5100

Lilly might help here:

CA, p. 370 and 371:
"Another [to the question "Of reovein from place to place."]
The Lord of the ascendant stronger then the lord of the senventh, abide; if not, remove; if both be evill disposed, goe; both indifferent and better aspected of good then evill, stay; & e contra. Moon seperating from Infortunes, goe; from Fortunes, abide. Note, the ascendant is for the Journier (or the place he goes from,) the seventh is the Place whither he would goe. Also if the Lord of the ascendant separate from Infortunes and apply to Fortunes, goe; if from Fortunes, and applieth to Infortunes, stay: and if the Lord of the ascendant and Moon agree, the judgment is more certain."
And p. 371:
"Of removing from one place to another; or of two Businesses, which is best.
Consider the first and second houses, and their lords, and the lords of the places to which thou wouldest goe, and lord of the substance thou thinkest for to attaine there, see the seventh and eight houses and their lords, which of them is best and strongest, thither goe and remove. (...); see if the planet to whom the Moon applyes be better then that she separated from, for then thou mayest remove, else not: &c."

The significator of the 7th, the other apartment, is ruled by saturn in 28 virgo, 2 degrees from his exaltation.

Saturn is in late Virgo, but not quite in the vacinity where most would consider it as in Libra.

Bonatti says:

Anima Astrologiae
The 30th Consideration is, To observe when a planet that is Significator, or the Moon, shall have past the 29th degree of the Sign wherein it is, and touches the 30th, and especially if it have passed one minute of that degree; for then it shall have no strength in that Sign, but in the next...

Also, the Moon is VOC, which is something to consider.

Wow, I'm not sure what happened with the repeat posts. Very strange!


Oh, and I forgot to mention that there isn't hr agreement either. It's a Saturn hr, which doesn't agree with the ASC or the ASC ruler.

Hi astrolabe999,

I think the chart says "Go". There's not much going on in this chart, but L7, Saturn is entering the sign of its exaltation with no opposing/hostile testimonies. The last aspect of the Moon was an opposition with Venus lord of the 3rd house (neighbours).

The Moon is VOC, so there is not much going on and perhaps you're unsure about the move. But I think that overall a move would not be bad or detrimental.

The Moon in the 7th seems like a great want to move, but I think there might be a 2nd house issue (money). There are two malefics influencing the 2nd house, one ruling the hr and the 7th, and 2nd ruler is combusted (by the querent), with the 2nd ruler and ASC ruler squaring the PoF. I think it might be advising that you may suffer a loss of substance if you remove.

NeptuneRX in the 7th house. Illusions about the place?

Neptune can also signify a place near water.

The moon, my co-sig, is in the 7th house and applying to saturn within 3 degrees. I forgot to notice the aspect-- I know, that IS important.

Moon doesn't aspect Saturn until the end of Pisces, in an opposition. That is an orb of over 30 degrees.

Exaltations can mean something is exagerated?

There's not much going on in this chart, but L7, Saturn is entering the sign of its exaltation with no opposing/hostile testimonies.

I still say Saturn's exaltation is not relevant here because he isn't close enough to be considered exalted, but Lilly says in Christian Astrology, book I (Saturn's exaltation degree is 21 Libra):

[EXALTATION.] If he be in that Sign wherein he is exalted, you may allow him four dignities essentiall, whether he be neer the very degree of his exaltation, yea or not; as Mars in Capricorn or Jupiter in Cancer.

If the Significator be in his exaltation, and no wayes impedited, but Angular; it presents a person of haughty condition arrogant, affirming more unto him then his due; for it?s observed, the Planets in some part of the Zodiack doe more evidently declare their effects then in others; and I conceive this to be in those Signs and degrees where fixed Starres of the same nature with the Planet, are more in number, and neerer the Ecliptick.

Bonatti says in Anima Astrologiae:

The 41st is, If an Infortune, being Significator, be in his own House or Exaltation, or in his own Terms or Triplicity, or in Angles or Succedent Houses; for by all these means he is fortified, and shall be counted strong as a Fortune.

Saturn in Libra is as a "fortune," essentially dignified, so even though Lilly says it can be "haughty" or self-important (probably more so when it is a person), it is still a benefic placement.

Also, there is a Jupiter-Saturn opp (it occurs again later) which could be construed as "hostile," especially without reception and Jupiter ruling and sitting in an ill house (the 8th). I think it's just more financial issues, though (the 2nd from the 7th). Jupiter expands opportunities (financial or otherwise) while Saturn restricts, so that aspect is unstable in general. If you do consider Saturn in Libra upon removal, perhaps that might reflect the price of the move as well. I don't know if a move would be bad idea, but it basically seems constricted for some reason, most likely financial, and perhaps the querent would know why best.

I think the VOC Moon (Moon leaves an opposition to a benefic on the ASC and applies ad vac) and lack of hr agreement give this chart some issues on readbility though, so it's a bit sketchy.

In comparing whether to stay or go, perhaps Lilly's point scale comparisons of the ASC ruler vs. the 7th ruler might help. Both are not entirely great.

Hello alchemist and Tanit,
Thank you both for your insights.
As for the lack of hour agreement, I haven't really been looking at that, because even Lilly tended to ignore that in his charts. I haven't had the time to study that issue in more depth. I suppose Bonatti did refer to the hour agreement in all his charts? I mean, he wouldn't read the chart unless the ruler of the hour was compatible with the Asc?
Perhaps if the hour is not in agreement, a less experienced person (myself) would simply find it more difficult to interpret.
The chart does seem vague.
Yes, finances are an issue...true enough.
As for comparing the Asc ruler with the 7th, I thought one was mainly supposed to look at the 4th and 7th rulers and compare them. Neither seems that great, (if saturn is not in his exaltation) although Mars is in the first house. Does that seem to indicate that I will remain where I am?

Correction: mars is in at the cusp of the second house, so at this point it seems as though money is definitely going to be an main issue.
But I don't think that the money issue is going to make it impossible to move. There might be difficulties but I dont think that would prevent the move.

Hello

Just pointing out a couple of things...

The Sun and Mercury conjunction is also conjunct the South Node....

As you already said, Astrolabe, the Moon and Saturn aspect is an Inconjunct or Quincunx, which is being interestingly discussed in another current thread now:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5572

Because Saturn is the dispositor of the Moon in your horary chart, the fact that the Moon can't see it is something you may consider important in your interpretation.

Regards

H.

As for the lack of hour agreement, I haven't really been looking at that, because even Lilly tended to ignore that in his charts. I haven't had the time to study that issue in more depth. I suppose Bonatti did refer to the hour agreement in all his charts? I mean, he wouldn't read the chart unless the ruler of the hour was compatible with the Asc?
Perhaps if the hour is not in agreement, a less experienced person (myself) would simply find it more difficult to interpret.
The chart does seem vague.

Lilly and others would still take it into consideration, I am sure. It is up to the astrologer whether or not to proceed, but usually when I have a lack of hr agreement in addition to other considerations, I do not proceed because the chart may not be reliable. I have read charts without hour agreement that have been accurate, but there is often a piece of information in the question that is missing, or the question might not be well-formed yet, etc. Usually there is a reason for the lack of rootedness in the question.

As for comparing the Asc ruler with the 7th, I thought one was mainly supposed to look at the 4th and 7th rulers and compare them. Neither seems that great, (if saturn is not in his exaltation) although Mars is in the first house.

The traditional method of comparing your current place to a place where you'd move would be 1st to 7th. If you want to analyze your home environment, by the description of your home, price, etc., you may want to look at the 4th and 5th (2nd from the 4th). Usually we look at the 4th when analyzing property, such as in real estate questions. If you do not own your apartment, I would not be so sure about looking at the 4th.

Another thing that Lilly liked to do was look at your natal to see what area would be best to live. If you look at Christian Astrology, book III, he talks about how to determine the best direction to live.

Handn and Tanit,
I really appreciate your input. Thank you again!
I just read the thread on the inconjunct. Definitely, an adjustment would have to be made.
Another thought. When I asked the question, I did not have a particular place in mind, nor have I yet gone to look at any prospective apartments. I wonder if that explains the inconjunct aspect and the lack of hour agreement? Perhaps the question isnt "firmed up" enough? However, wouldn't that also be indicated by an early ASC?