Skyscript Astrology Forum

I would like to open a discussion on Lots. I would not cover the Hermetic Lots as they have been covered quite detail in one of the previous threads and I think I should start a new thread. I will begin with the grimmest Lot of all ? the Lot of death.

There are various formulae for Lot of death (lots of lot of death!).
First Group: Lot of Death.
Paulus did not mention the formula for Lot of death.
Olympiodorus commentary gives a few Lots of death:
1. Asc + Moon ? Saturn, same for both day and night
2. Asc + Moon ? Saturn, reverse at night
3. Saturn + 8th house cusp ? Moon, same for both day and night
Dorotheus, Abu Ma?shar, Al-Biruni and Bonatti formulae are the same as the third Olympiodorus formula.

Second Group: Anareita or Killing Planet:
Olympiodorus listed another formula and calls this Anareta:
Asc + Moon - Lord of Asc, same for both day and night but he also listed the same formula for anareta which he instructs us to reverse for night births! (Olympiodorus is known to give many formulae for the same Lots).
Abu Ma?shar, Al-Biruni and Bonatti listed the same formula and also instruct us to reverse for night births. Al-Biruni calls this Lot anareita whereas Abu Ma?shar and Bonatti call this the Lot of the Killing Planet.

Third Group:
There are also other Lots that are indirectly connected to death i.e. Danger of violence (Al-Biruni) and Lot of Heavy Place (Bonatti) which Al-Biruni refers to as Place of Murder and Sickness.

Let us discuss the Lots of death that are directly called Lot of death. We shall leave the Lots of Anareita or Killing Planet and other death related Lots for another day. So, we will concentrate on the first group:

I really do not like Lot that does not use Ascendant (Saturn + 8th house cusp ? Moon) because I feel that it is not personal to the native or entity. Furthermore, a house cusp is used. I also do not like to use a lot that uses house cusp other than the angles because the house cusps are very different for charts plotted with different house systems. It makes our analysis unreliable due to the dependency of the Lots to the house systems.
If we discard the three body Lot of Death, we are left with Ascendant + Moon ? Saturn. However, there is a dispute of whether the formula should be reversed for night births. My thought on this is no ? you shouldn?t but I need to study this further. I will be using diurnal chart examples so that the issue of reversal can be ignored.

Hence, the Lot of death that I prefer is (Ascendant + Moon ? Saturn).

Is there a rationale for this Lot to signify death?
Moon is probably chosen because she is universal significator of the body and matter as she is nearest to earth. Saturn is chosen maybe because he is the natural greater malefic and he rules the house (Capricorn) that is opposite to Moon?s house (Cancer). The eight house (which is associated with death) from Cancer (house ruled by Moon) is Aquarius (also house ruled by Saturn).

Let us look at two examples viz. the titanic and challenger disasters.

Titanic has many charts to consider viz. the date of the successful completion of her hull (May 31, 1911), the date of the completion of her fitting (March 31, 1912), the date of her sea trial (April 2, 1912) and the date of her maiden voyage (April 10, 1912). I prefer to use the date of her maiden voyage because for me this is the time when she is expected to fulfil her ?destiny? i.e. to set sail for the first time, etc. It is similar to the natal birth time as this is the time when a human has his or her independent life and start the journey of life (the conception chart describes more of the making of the human just like a ship in her design and construction stage). The start of any voyage can be used as an event chart but I believe that the start of a maiden voyage somehow means more than just an event ? it is more like ?birth? event for the ship. The section of Biography in the astro-databank states that she began her voyage on April 10, 1912, 12:15 pm, Southampton UK according to news clipping [http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/His ... nic_Voyage].



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Let us study this chart. As is usual in my practice, I will be using whole sign house. I will still use the modern planets but only in conjunctions (co-presence) and not aspects nor as rulers. Asc is 11Leo02, Main luminary Sun is 20Ari15 (9th house), Moon is 29Cap44 (6th house). Let us look into the planetary and house level. It just so happen that the main luminary (Sun) is also the Lord of the Ascendant which makes Sun very important in this chart. Finding the Lord of Ascendant and main luminary (Sun) in the 9th house is logical for the ship is designed for ?travelling?. Sun is also exalted by being in Aries and the Sun is very near its exaltation degree (19Aries). The ship is exalted and although exaltation can be very positive, exaltation can also mean the one who is held on high but does not deserve the elevation conferred to him. The Titanic was called the ?unsinkable? and we now know that Titanic does not really deserve to be called the unsinkable. The Sun happens to be in proximity to North Node 21Ari33 (with just about 1 degree orb). This is definitely not good! The usual medieval interpretation of North Node is ?magnification? and of South Node is ?lessening? but when either is in proximity to the luminaries, it is usually not good as the luminaries are considered to resemble being ?eclipsed? when they are near the nodes. The Moon, though not the main luminary, is usually taken as the universal significator of ships. The Moon is in the 6th house (cadent) and she is also in her detriment. This is not really good. The Moon is also separating from Neptune and applying to Uranus (out of sign but quite small orb). The medieval astrologers will not see these modern planets but they would have noted that the fallen Mars (in Cancer) is in opposition to Moon and square Sun. Both luminaries are afflicted by the out of sect malefic (Mars) and Mars happens to be in his fallen sign viz. Cancer (fall down into the water?). You would think that Sun in superior square position would overcome the nastiness of Mars but Mars disposits Sun which makes Sun to be ?under the mercy? of Mars and Mars is not in his good mood being in his fallen sign (in other words the reception is not going to work). Mars is also the ruler of the 4th house and 4th house is the negative house for a ship as it is the place where ship sinks. Modern astrologer would also note the close square of Sun and Neptune.

Let?s look at the Lot level. The Lot of death for this chart is 21Ari33 which happens to be almost exactly conjunct the main luminary and Lord of Ascendant (Sun). Though this is a major indication on its own, the domicile Lord of Lot of death is the out of sect malefic (Mars) in his fall in the 12th house squaring Sun and opposing Moon. Would you have gone on a trip on this ship if you had seen this chart?

The next example is the launch of the space shuttle Challenger. I remember seeing it in the television and everybody was touched because a civilian astronaut (a female teacher) was among the victims. The explosion occurred at 11:39 am (73-74 seconds following lift-off) so the time of lift off is quite exact, Jan 28, 1986, 11:38 am EST, Cape Canaveral, Florida. I simply take 1 minute before the explosion as the lift-off time (anyway, the chart does not change much).



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Asc is 06Tau48, Main luminary Sun is 08Aqu28 (10th house), Moon is 11Vir03 (5th house). The nodes are almost exactly on the ascendant-descendant axis (though this is not that worrying). The Lord of the Ascendant (Venus) is combust by the detriment Sun (explosion?). The main luminary is Sun which is detriment in Aquarius. The out of sect malefic squares both main luminary (Sun) and Lord of Ascendant (Venus) and overcomes them. Pluto in the same sign as Mars would put the power of Mars to the extreme. The dispositor of the Lord of Ascendant (Venus) and main luminary (Sun) is Saturn but Saturn is located in the 8th house (house of death). Even the ?point of luck? i.e. Lot of Fortune is located in the 8th house. You would think that Jupiter being in the same sign as main luminary (Sun) and the Lord of Ascendant (Venus) would help but he is the Lord of the house of death (8th house). The moon (general significator of ?ships?) is in Virgo in the 5th house and this s fine. However, Moon is being afflicted by Saturn through square aspect and Saturn is located in the 8th house of death. In fact, Moon separates from Saturn and applies to Mars which is the other malefic. This is besiegement via aspect. The dispositor of Moon is Mercury who is also combust by the detriment Sun (explosion?).

Let?s look at the Lot level. The Lot of death for this chart is 10Aqu09 which happens to conjunct the Lord of Ascendant (Venus) and closely conjunct main luminary (Sun). The dispositor (Saturn) is located in the 8th house of death.

It is interesting to note the similarity between both Titanic and Challenger disaster charts via the Lot level.

Hello astrojin

Nice work, as always

What I find astonishing in the Titanic's chart is the exact(well, almost!) antiscia of Saturn with the ascendant degree. The greater malefic and natural ruler of death certainly damages the most important point of this chart by its malevolent influence(and accidentally rules the 7th and the 6th aka mala fortuna - injuries). What other planet could describe the iceberg as well as Saturn does, being a cold/dry planet in a cold/dry sign of Taurus?

Even more interestingly, Saturn is disposed by the exalted Venus in Pisces(a water sign) thus emphasizing the nature of the threat which was to encounter Titanic - and posited in the 8th, the house of death, close enough to Scheat of Mars/Mercury nature.

Saturn is also co-present wit the POF, strongly indicating harm/destruction to the fortunes of Titanic.
Moreover, the Sun is posited on Baten Kaitos(constellation "Sea monster"), a malefic fixed star partaking in Saturn's nature which, according to Robson, signifies

misfortune by force or accident, shipwreck but also rescue

and we all know that not all the passengers died - in fact, one third(roughly) managed to survive.

Thanks for starting a very interesting thread!

Greetings,
Goran

Hello Goran,

Thank you for the compliments. I purposely avoided the fixed star level in this discussion because I wish to emphasize the planet, house and Lot level. However, your post covering the fixed star level is certainly welcomed! Your analysis on the antiscion is very interesting indeed!

Hi, Astrojin.

Moon is probably chosen because she is universal significator of the body and matter as she is nearest to earth. Saturn is chosen maybe because he is the natural greater malefic and he rules the house (Capricorn) that is opposite to Moon?s house (Cancer). The eight house (which is associated with death) from Cancer (house ruled by Moon) is Aquarius (also house ruled by Saturn).

Well, using moon and saturn maybe is also a "alpha and omega" thing

I personally don?t agree with the idea of using event charts of departures to prognosticate accidents... good in hindsight, but if stop for a minute to considerate the sheer amount of planes and ships that departure every single minute of every single day, we can see that the predictive power is very small. So I don?t agree it is the appropriate methodology to see whose is the best lot of death.

But I found that this lot may be interesting in natal charts. for instance, the "time of greatest danger" that Deb posted as a mystery chart: The lot is in 2Sag, opposing lord of 12th.

Also in the chart of Marilyn Monroe, dispositor of lot is mars, in the 8th house, squaring the sun.

Of course I will have to play with it a little more..

Hello Yuzuru,

I personally don?t agree with the idea of using event charts of departures to prognosticate accidents... good in hindsight, but if stop for a minute to considerate the sheer amount of planes and ships that departure every single minute of every single day, ...

I wouldn't too in prognostication. What I suggested was to use the Lot at their maiden voyages not on every trip because if the start of the maiden voyage has too many red flags raised (afflictions from the malefics) and the Lot of death conjuncts important planets like main luminary or Lord of Ascendant - you would wonder at the survival of the maiden trip/voyage itself. In natal chart, this is equivalent to having first differentia birth. Like natal chart, the Lot of death of the maiden voyage (equivalent to natal chart) is the one to be used for their other trips if the ship survives it maiden voyage (like solar return chart where we still use natal Lot and not the recalculated Lot).

Yuzury wrote:

But I found that this lot may be interesting in natal charts. for instance, the "time of greatest danger" that Deb posted as a mystery chart

And again, the ruler of the lot Jupiter is in antiscia with the ascendant, and both are sitting on major violent fixed stars (Aldebaran and Castor).

Goran

There's something about these antiscia/contra-antiscia points which really, literally makes them shadowy and a bit hard to recognize - in the chart of the Challenger launch Jupiter, the lord of the 8th, is sitting on the cusp of the 7th by antiscion, thus opposing the ascendant(I've just spotted it, but not when I analyzed the chart for the first time...)
This is only reinforced by the mutual reception existing between Saturn and Jupiter.

So one more time: excellent examples, astrojin


PS In the next few days I'm going to post the chart of my late best friend who died in a car crash in Hungary almost five years ago, paying speciall attention to what the lot of death and her ruler have to say on the matter.

Anyway, just wanted to add that I like the presented reasoning behind the calculation of this lot and it makes the most sense to me; using the house cusps other than ascendant in calculations has also always bothered me for the same reasons you stated.

Greetings,
Goran