Skyscript Astrology Forum

I am trying to find a traditional medieval or prior equivalent for modern automobile commuting significators. Such as planet, house etc. Is there an ancient siginficator for a chariot I can use? In medieval books 3rd house is used for siblings and 9th for journeys. Does it belong to travel?

I am trying to determine such things as house and lots in the case of a car accident in a natal chart. At the moment Mars and the Ascendant are involved by PD but as the chart is rectified I need more significations for the event. It happened on Monday November 1, 2010 around 12 noon so I am not trying to predict it.

I guess my question also applies to air or space travel though they may come under 9th house as it does entail a distant journey as does some rail travel etc.

Thanks Majid Buell

majid

You might find these links useful.

To summarise, cars can be considered ruled by the 3rd house.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/house_answers.html

I understand all those but at the moment I am studying Ben Dykes' materials from the Persian based Astrology. I was wondering if there wasn't something older than Lilly on the subject. The origin of those significators is also not very clear. Its hard to distinguish in the latter list what is modern and what is from the ancients. Maybe I am just being too picky about this. The question of lots also arises do you use a Lot associated with the 3rd house or a specific planet?

In some ways, this one is a real can of worms. I think most people would agree that an automobile would fall into 2 - if you're doing taxes or counting your assets - it's moveable property.

Someone else also pointed out the articles people have written using 3 for cars, as a means of transportation.

And yet another argument can be made for using 1 - the ship (vehicle) within which I sail.

I use House 1 myself, and as Lilly (and some well before him) if I need to separate the vehicle from the passengers, the vehicle gets the ascendant itself and the passengers get the planet ruling the ascendant.

Research research research! It's a fascinating one.

Olivia are you using this for Horary or Nativity charts? I am trying to look at an accident in a Nativity using Medieval Significations or at least Ancient significators.
Majid

Olivia wrote: And yet another argument can be made for using 1 - the ship (vehicle) within which I sail.

This sounds like Schmidt, but I know that he's said that it is the 6th because it is a beast of burden (animal slave). However, given that the medieval material differentiates between large and small animals with the 6th being small animals (?) would the 12th then represent cars?

majid wrote:Olivia are you using this for Horary or Nativity charts? I am trying to look at an accident in a Nativity using Medieval Significations or at least Ancient significators.
Majid

I took it as horary. If I were looking for accidents in a nativity, the first thing I'd do is to look at the condition and aspects to Mars. The Ascendant is also important, as that's the person. There are any number of things to look at, including fixed stars, but Mars rules accidents, so that's probably as good a place as any to start.

Hello Majid, Olivia, Curtis and all

Olivia wrote: [If I were looking for accidents in a nativity, the first thing I'd do is to look at the condition and aspects to Mars. The Ascendant is also important, as that's the person.

And Lights:

If Saturn and Mars control the luminaries, however, and particularly if they are in opposition to each other, they will make the results useless and will involve the subject in great dangers, through unfortunate voyages and shipwreck if they are in watery signs, or again through hard going and desert places; and if they are in solid signs, through falling from heights and assaults of winds; in the solstitial and equinoctial signs, through lack of provisions and unhealthy conditions; in the signs of human form, through piracy, plots, and robberies; in the terrestrial signs, through the attacks of beasts, or earthquakes, and if Mercury is present at the same time, through the weather, dangerous accusations, and, furthermore, through the bites of reptiles and other poisonous creatures.

margherita

margherita wrote:Hello Majid, Olivia, Curtis and all

Olivia wrote: [If I were looking for accidents in a nativity, the first thing I'd do is to look at the condition and aspects to Mars. The Ascendant is also important, as that's the person.

And Lights:

If Saturn and Mars control the luminaries, however, and particularly if they are in opposition to each other, they will make the results useless and will involve the subject in great dangers, through unfortunate voyages and shipwreck if they are in watery signs, or again through hard going and desert places; and if they are in solid signs, through falling from heights and assaults of winds; in the solstitial and equinoctial signs, through lack of provisions and unhealthy conditions; in the signs of human form, through piracy, plots, and robberies; in the terrestrial signs, through the attacks of beasts, or earthquakes, and if Mercury is present at the same time, through the weather, dangerous accusations, and, furthermore, through the bites of reptiles and other poisonous creatures.

margherita

Sounds like Valens... What is the source?

zoidsoft wrote:
Sounds like Valens... What is the source?

Ptolemy Tetrabiblos IV, 8

Thanks guys I will try and research further on this. As for the accident I did look at Mars and the Ascendant and as you can see from my original posting I am working on a Primary Direction (PD) Mars square the Asc. I was curious as to how us modern people find significations using Medieval techniques only. Cars to me would be chariots and then carriages (horseless carriage). I know 3rd house is oft taken for short trips i.e. commute but I did not find a correlation in the texts I have looked at up to now.

This sounds like Schmidt, but I know that he's said that it is the 6th because it is a beast of burden (animal slave). However, given that the medieval material differentiates between large and small animals with the 6th being small animals (?) would the 12th then represent cars?

We wouldn't separate the engine from the automobile, so I wouldn't separate the horse from the cart when discussing a journey. The journey is third house. The horse and cart (combined) are possessions). Will my sick horse finish the journey, might well be 12th.

Steven has it right. There is the trip and there is the means by which we make the trip. If the sick horse is going to complete the journey ruler of the the third house might be strong and the horse weak.

I'm inclined to do the same sort of thing with a nativity.