Skyscript Astrology Forum

Does anyone have experience with remedial measures? gems, etc. Do you have any opinons as to their effectiveness?



Thanks.

I haven't used gems or yoga positions, &c., as a Hindu astrologer might recommend.

I am a fan of modern "choice-centered" astrology, however, and have found it very effective in mitigating astrological stressors. The idea is that you would look at difficult placements in a natal chart or difficult upcoming transits, and then look for empowering, active ways to address them.

For example, in a natal chart:

I have natal Saturn in Virgo the 12th opposite Mars in Pisces (5th or 6th house, depending on the system). My life does sometimes feel like a "see-saw" between taking some kind of assertive initiative (Mars) but then feeling embarassed that I over-stepped myself (Saturn). To me, an empowering interpretation of these placements is recreation (Mars in the 5th house) that requires careful planning or discipline (Saturn in Virgo,) as well as serious attention to the possibility of "self-undoing" (12th house). Right now I am swimming laps at my valley's recreation centre (Mars in Pisces in the 5th), trying to build up my long-distance swimming endurance (Saturn.)

My husband and I also enjoy canoeing (Mars in Pisces in the 5th), but because the water can very quickly turn treacherous (12th house), we take a lot of precautions in the event of swamping, such as making sure we have a bailer, first-aid kit, foil blankets, spare paddle, life jackets, &c. (Saturn in Virgo) before we head out. So these seem like constructive ways to deal with a difficult aspect.

You can also work with upcoming transits this way.

A few years ago, I faced a slug of difficult transits simultaneously, affecting my angles, sun, and Saturn, among others. Taking the IC (Sagittarius)/MC axis, we renovated our basement, sold our house (IC), and I retired from my job (MC). We have a small travel trailer (RV) and we travelled in it for two months. We settled in a brand new community, selected in part on the basis of checking planetary lines on the map. Everything worked out really well. Instead of waiting for some catastrophe to hit at work or at home, we "caught the wave."

This last example would be too drastic for many people, but I think the universe notices if you take small, constructive steps in life. I would prefer action to using gemstones, but if these have even a placebo effect of getting people to experience their lives more positively, they probably have merit. I don't think the merit is in the stones, but in how people think about them. Contemplating difficult placements through a spiritual discipline, dream work, or journaling would probably also be helpful.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but could we please keep the modern astrological techniques in the general astrology forum and not in the traditional techniques forum?

Thanks.

Sorry, Olivia--but actually the use of gemstones is traditional in Vedic astrology, and this board header does include, "historical developments."

The concept of choice (in its various guises) has been around in astrology for a very long time, possibly since the Mesopotamians. (cf. Nicholas Campion, The Dawn of Astrology, pp. 64-5.)

One could practice traditional western astrology exclusively and still believe that people can implement remedial measures of the type I described.

Here is a link to an old thread from the traditional forum on planetary talismans which may be of interest.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

Mark

Hi waybread,

Actually, from the Mesopotamian times onward, religious and magical 'remedial' measures would have been employed, whether or not they were approved of; that would be the traditional(tm) standard. It would not be simple "empowering choices" as it were, though I don't reject the potential utility of a practice such as that.

I just thumbed through both volumes of Nicholas Campion's history of western astrology, and what I termed "choice-centered astrology" clearly existed throughout astrology's history, though in different forms and with different rationales.

For example, in vol. I (p. 165) on the Platonic revolution, for example, he discusses how foreknowledge of the future enables people to "negotiate with it"...Knowledge of planetary movements "naturally enables the astrologer to anticipate future possibilities and evade or enhance them..."

For another example, Campion (vol. 2, p. 61) cites a 17th century English version of a 10th century Arabic work by Ahmet Abu Ja'far, The Centriloquium of Claudius Ptolemy: "The simpler formula is 'the wise man rules his stars, the fool obeys them' or, as one sixteenth-century English version had it, 'One skilful in this Science may evade many effects of the Stars, when he knows their Natures, and diligently prepares himself to receive their effects.'..There is absolutely no question that, in the hands of astrology's leading practitioners and theoreticians, it was not deterministic. quite the opposite. Above all, it was participatory..."

In horary astrology (Campion's chapter on the 13th century, p. 63) "Depending on the complexity of the situation the astrologer might also give a qualified answer, advising the client to undertake certain actions to strengthen their position."

[Emphases mine.]

On another thread, we just had a poll and debate on whether members of this forum believed in "solar return tourism", whereby individuals might spend their birthdays in locations distant from their birth places, chosen to give them more favourable charts; with some traditional astrologers supporting this practice. This is another form of choice-centered astrology.

The Vedic tradition of prescribing gems to be worn close to the skin to enhance or mitigate planetary influences is different in content, but it still affords the individual a measure of self-determination in remedial measures.

Mark, thanks for the link!

Hi waybread,

Sorry but that all seems very vague & unconvincing on the point that some sort of newagey positive mental attitude was something that was practiced before very recently, meaning last 2 centuries.

Well Waybread was asking the original querent's question which was a request for practical advice based on experience though I appreciate that a separation of Trad v. Mod is needed.

I take slight issue with the term "newagey". As an ex-attendee of Alternatives at St James' I suppose that I am a new-ager myself but most new age stuff is ancient Knowledge. A better term is "Mind, body and spirit" or even better "Mind,body and wallet" as is now costs ten quid to attend a meeting there, let alone a workshop.

Regards

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'll try to stop derailing the thread after this, but I'm of the opinion that much New Age stuff is misunderstood & misrepresented old Knowledge with a large dose of Christian Science/New Thought/human potential movement ideas that are both ahistorical and, again in my opinion, completely wrong.

I do agree that there is also the factor of "Change your Mind by giving me All Your Money".

Sorry to hear about your wallet, Matt. Here newage is an industry, they charge considerably more for meetings and the like - it's almost reminiscent of those membership dues and fees for the various 'secret societies' like the Golden Dawn being a good 15 or 20 times higher than the average peasant's annual income.

Canoeing as an astrological remedial measure? Not so much. It's pretty unlikely to solve problems like you can't seem to find anyone to marry you, and your chart is, indeed, very poor for marriage.

I agree with Gabe that in some circumstances, things like you talked about can be therapeutic. But it's not a traditional remedial measure - those would be talismans, prayers, likely, rituals certainly, and in Jyotish, as well as some Hebrew texts, which I think have made it into the west - gemstones.

Horary doesn't fall into 'remedial measures' so there would have been some things recommended to do in the world, but that's not the same concept.

Yikes! Nothing that I wrote was "newagey" [sic.] I am not a New Age person. I looked at some New Age practices pretty seriously about 20 years ago, and too many of them simply offended my need for evidence and reason.

I don't think Nicholas Campion's histories of astrology are "newagey" in their academic approach. Does anyone?

Certainly there is a New Age interest in gem stones, but their use as remedial measures in Vedic astrology would have to be considered "traditional" by any definition.

My canoeing example was about one of the ways in which I deal (to good effect, I believe) with my Mars opposite Saturn. And for any sceptics: don't knock a choice-centered approach until you've tried it.

It amazes me that some astrologers pooh-pooh taking pro-active steps that (if nothing else) would add a lot of enrichment to their lives. But oh, no. Some people would rather glumly complain about their crummy fate. In part, this is because if the pro-active, choice-centered approach worked, it would invalidate how the nay-sayers have settled for far too little in life.

My first advice to someone who can't find anyone to marry her would be to join a reputable Internet dating service. She should look at what is going on in her life and horoscope and find ways to stop being so other-dependent. Oh, and as per that thread on "solar return tourism"--she should take a nice long-distance trip to a singles resort on her next birthday, as recommended by a traditional astrologer. She might just meet Mr. Right while canoeing.

Like I said, this is Mars opposite Saturn here.