Skyscript Astrology Forum

I am interested in studying the house meanings in Indian astrology and comparing these with classical and medieval astrology in the west.

There appears to be some interesting links. For example, like classical astrology (and unlike most medieval?) the 6th house has an association with enemies. However, some ideas appear unique to the Indian tradition.

Can anyone suggest a reliable book that discusses this?

Thanks

Mark

Hello Mark,

One of the most comprehensive, most readable and knowledgeable books on Indian/Vedic astrology that I have read is called "Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India" by Hart deFouw and Robert E. Svoboda. I would much rather recommend this than the many more or less good translations of ancient Indian astrological texts (readily available) to any one who is interested in the fundamentals of Indian astrology. The Amazon link is:

http://www.amazon.com/Light-Life-Hart-d ... 0140195076

I am very sure that you will enjoy reading this book (you can see that I am assuming you don't already possess it ).

The most appealing aspect of the book is the way almost every point or statement made is reasoned out logically, psychologically or mythologically.

However, in case you are interested I would be glad to suggest the names of what are regarded as the foundational texts of Indian/Vedic astrology which are available in English (as I have briefly mentioned above). But honestly, the deFouw and Svoboda book is all one needs.

Regards,
Mansoor

Brishat Parashara Hora Shashtra is considered to be the most recommended.
The House related chapter are here.The dating of the text is debatable but considered to be ancient.

To get you started-

http://www.astrojyoti.com/bphspage2.htm

Then comes "Brihat Jataka" by Varahamihira

Saravali and Phaladeepika.
Horasara is by Prithuyasa who was the son of varahamihira.

They can be found here:
http://jyotishvidya.com/books.htm
or a lot more but only online:

http://www.astrojyoti.com/othersashtras.htm


"Uttarakalamrita" by Kalidasa is most extensive in deliniation of signifactors but not an early vedic text.

PD

An interesting topic. Unfortunately I am not aware of any good sources, outside of the classical texts themselves. The great majority of house meanings in India are of course derived from Greek sources, with some acculturation. Two random observations:

Until recently, I believed the assignation of the father to the 9th house to be exclusively Indian; then I found it in Valens. Presumably it originally related to the 9th being the joy of the Sun (a concept not used in classical Indian astrology.

The assignation of friends to the 4th house does appear to be wholly Indian (unless someone here knows otherwise?). I believe that the original meaning of 'ancestors' was first expanded (whether consciously or by misunderstanding) into 'relatives' generally. In Sanskrit, this is bandhu, which is the word used in both the Yavanaj?taka and the B?hajj?taka. But bandhu also has the secondary sense of 'friend', which was how the house meaning came to be interpreted by later authors.

Do you have any other examples of house meanings peculiar to Indian astrology?

Hello Martin,

An interesting topic. Unfortunately I am not aware of any good sources, outside of the classical texts themselves. The great majority of house meanings in India are of course derived from Greek sources, with some acculturation. Two random observations:

Yes I had assumed there was a lot of common ground. Especially with hellenistic astrology. I would be interested in seeing a summary of the what exactly 'the classics' of Indian astrology are. Is this something you plan to discuss when your website gets going?

Until recently, I believed the assignation of the father to the 9th house to be exclusively Indian; then I found it in Valens. Presumably it originally related to the 9th being the joy of the Sun (a concept not used in classical Indian astrology.

Ah! I mentioned this in my original post but began to doubt the authenticity of the web sources stating this so I deleted my comment. I had concluded myself that it must be linked to the Sun finding its joy there. One web source also suggested the the spiritual association of the house meant this was the house of the Guru as the spiritual 'father'.

The assignation of friends to the 4th house does appear to be wholly Indian (unless someone here knows otherwise?). I believe that the original meaning of 'ancestors' was first expanded (whether consciously or by misunderstanding) into 'relatives' generally. In Sanskrit, this is bandhu, which is the word used in both the Yavanaj?taka and the B?hajj?taka. But bandhu also has the secondary sense of 'friend', which was how the house meaning came to be interpreted by later authors.

Very interesting. This is the kind of critical evaluation that is really useful. I get the distinct impression that a lot of Indian translators treat all astrological texts texts with excessive reverence.

Do you have any other examples of house meanings peculiar to Indian astrology?

Just wondered about a stray comment I read somewhere (I think it might have been Robert Hand in his book on Whole Sign Houses) that the 2nd house had a difficult reputation in Indian astrology. Is this connected to the Hindu (and ancient Indian astrology) questioning of the spiritual value of material wealth? Also isn't the 2nd house linked to death in Indian astrology? Is this explained by the 2nd house opposing the 8th? Or is it more because by zodiacal/diurnal order it is the first/last whole sign house fully submerged below the earth? In hellenistic astrology this house was 'The Gate of Hades' so I wondered if the Indian astrologers simply developed this association further.

Mark

Hello again Martin,

I have just recalled you made some useful comments and suggestions on Indian astrology a couple of years back in the middle of a rather obscure backwater thread here on Skyscript.

I think it might be worth repeating my initial question and your reply for the benefit of other members:

Mark wrote:

The books I have seen recommended as good introductions are:

1 David Frawley -The Astrology of the Seers
2 Hart DeFouw and Robert Svobodoa, Light on life
3 Robert De Luce , Constellational Astrology According to the Hindu System
4 James T. Braha, Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Modern Western Astrologer
5 James T Braha The Art and Practice of Ancient Hindu Astrology
6 William Levacy, Beneath A Vedic Sky
7 Belpin Behari, Fundamentals of Vedic Astrology: Vedic Astrologer's Handbook Vol. I
8 Belpin Behari, Planets in the Signs and Houses: Vedic Astrologer's Handbook Vol 2
9 Komilla Sutton, The Essentials Of Vedic Astrology

Martin wrote:

Mark: I am not sure if you were thinking of introductory texts on Indian astrology generally, or descriptions of the signs in particular? In either case, I would not recommend David Frawley as a good source for traditional Indian interpretations..... It might be better to go for one of the modern Indian authors. I retain good impressions of Gopesh Kumar Ojha's Predictive Astrology of the Hindus and of M. Ramkrishna Bhat's Fundamentals of Astrology. Reading classical texts is definitely the best option, if you can find translations that don't put you off or leave you bewildered. The B?hajj?taka (Brihat Jataka) is somewhere in between the Hellenistic and the fully-developed medieval Indian traditions. DeFouw relies heavily on the (much later) Phalad?pik?; I am rather partial to the J?takap?rij?ta.

I will not pretend to have a clue what these Sanskrit astrological terms mean but it sounds most intriguing. Of the modern Indian writers on astrology how useful have you found the works of of B.V. Raman? His book 'How to Judge a Horoscope' seems to devote considerable space to the view of houses in Indian astrology. I dont know to what extent his views were consistent with the earlier classical sources.

http://www.astroamerica.com/v-raman.html

Martin wrote:

Hi Mark,

First of all, I would scrap any book that uses the term 'Vedic'. 'Vedic' astrology was invented in the US in the 1980s, and the misnomer gradually spread to India. Horoscopic astrology has nothing to do with the Veda.

The situation with regard to house systems seems to have been (and still to be) much the same in Indian as in Hellenistic astrology, with whole-sign and Porphyry/Sripati houses used side by side.

Mark wrote:
I would be interested to know why you do not rate David Frawley's book that highly?

Martin wrote:

Frawley is much too much a 'new age' astrologer; his views are not consistent with the classical texts. Where the texts prescribe various Hindu rituals to remedy an afflicted Sun in the radix, Frawley recommends sun-bathing! It's 'Californian Vedic.'

Of the other books and authors you mention, Hart deFouw puts me in mind of Robert Schmidt (I mean their writing styles; I know neither personally): knowledgeable but idiosyncratic. Useful, but not to be taken as gospel. I read DeLuce many years ago and was not impressed, but I don't recall any details. Braha's first book is over-simplified, but contains rather useful delineations; Art and Practice, on the other hand, is a waste of paper (serious guru complex). I haven't read Levacy, Behari or Sutton.

Reading classical texts is definitely the best option, if you can find translations that don't put you off or leave you bewildered. The B?hajj?taka (Brihat Jataka) is somewhere in between the Hellenistic and the fully-developed medieval Indian traditions. DeFouw relies heavily on the (much later) Phalad?pik?; I am rather partial to the J?takap?rij?ta.

I do have a copy of the "Brihat Jataka" by Varahamihira. However, the translation I bought by Rao was quite inaccessible. Trying to read this rather reminded me of an amusing comment you made on another thread

Indian translations of Sanskrit texts which go: 'If Kuja and Shani are in a kendra or trikona from Lagna but aspected by Guru...' etc. Speaking as a translator, I ask myself: if you have to learn a new lingo in order to read a translation, is it really a translation in the first place?

Mark

Mark wrote:Yes I had assumed there was a lot of common ground. Especially with hellenistic astrology. I would be interested in seeing a summary of the what exactly 'the classics' of Indian astrology are. Is this something you plan to discuss when your website gets going?

I hadn't planned it, but you never know. There are a great number of Sanskrit astrological texts, but the all-time, all-India favourite would be the B?hajj?taka. (You may find the translation by Swami Vijnanananda, alias Hari Prasanna Chatterjee, more accessible than Rao's. My copy was published by Munshiram Manoharlal, which is one of the major Indian publishing houses.) The B?hajj?taka is something like the Indian Tetrabiblos: seminal, and very concise -- sometimes annoyingly so.

Different regions also have their own standard works; but as for the houses, I doubt there will be very great differences. Later texts will perhaps have expanded the meanings a bit, and horary texts may vary in emphasis from those on natal astrology.

I get the distinct impression that a lot of Indian translators treat all astrological texts texts with excessive reverence.

Yes. Different cultures of knowledge each have their advantages and disadvantages...

Just wondered about a stray comment I read somewhere (I think it might have been Robert Hand in his book on Whole Sign Houses) that the 2nd house had a difficult reputation in Indian astrology. Is this connected to the Hindu (and ancient Indian astrology) questioning of the spiritual value of material wealth? Also isn't the 2nd house linked to death in Indian astrology? Is this explained by the 2nd house opposing the 8th?

Indian astrological texts (and many non-astrological ones) take quite a positive view of wealth and worldly pleasures; but yes, the 2nd house is called a 'killing' house. Personally I am inclined to believe that this was originally because of its opposition to the 8th; but the explanation I have seen in classical texts is different (and sounds somewhat contrived to me): the 8th house and the 8th from the 8th (the 3rd house) are both taken as houses indicating longevity; therefore, the 12th from either is loss of longevity.

Of the modern Indian writers on astrology how useful have you found the works of of B.V. Raman? His book 'How to Judge a Horoscope' seems to devote considerable space to the view of houses in Indian astrology. I dont know to what extent his views were consistent with the earlier classical sources.

Raman knew his classics and generally kept close to them, so you could do much worse. You will have to tolerate a certain amount of Sanskrit terminology, though -- what we might call 'pundit English'.