First Astrological Text in Venacular Language? 1 by Mark Its well known that William Lilly broke away from the tradition of his times which involved writing astrological works in Latin. Christian Astrology was therefore the first original astrological text in English with the first edition published in 1647. This got me wondering when was the first astrological text written (or translated) into a venacular European language? I am thinking more of western Europe here. Technically, I suppose Byzantium is a special case with its publication of astrological works in medieval Greek. The first text that comes to mind is one of the books Lilly consulted. This was Claude Dariot's L'introduction au Judgement des Astres (Introduction to the Judgement of The Stars). This was a 97-page treatise on horary and electional astrology, first published in French in 1583. Was this the first astrological written in the venacular language of the author? What about translations of Latin texts into English? Guido Bonatti's Liber Astronomiae ( Book of Astronomy) , appears to have been first translated into Italian and German with an edition published in Basel , Switzerland in 1572. Am I missing earlier translations? The oldest translation of an astrological work I have so far managed to see reference to is a translation of Ibn Ezra's The Beginning of Wisdom (Le Commencemente Sapience) translated into old French by Hagin de Juif in 1273. However, this was just the fruit of a few minutes browsing online. I am sure there are a lot of texts I am ignoring. Anybody have any insights to offer? Mark Last edited by Mark on Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:54 pm
2 by Olivia Nicolaus Rensberger's Astronomia Teutsch was written in German in 1569. So that was one written in the vernacular. There was a translation of Haly into Castillian in the late 1200s, I think. I have a PDF copy of that somewhere, but I believe the original is in Arabic (I haven't seen that one). Remember that for Persian astrologers, Arabic would most likely have been the lingua franca of the day. Some of them were Jews, but they still spoke Arabic. Hebrew wasn't a spoken language at that point outside of prayers, Torah readings, etc., so I'm not sure if we could consider ibn Ezra's work to be in the vernacular or no - if you were a Jew, you'd understand it, but vernacular - probably not. Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:56 pm
Re: First Astrological Text in Venacular Langauge? 3 by toddcarnes Mark wrote:The first text that comes to mind is one of the books Lilly consulted. This was Claude Dariot's L'introduction au Judgement des Astres (Introduction to the Judgement of The Stars). This was a 97-page treatise on horary and electional astrology, first published in French in 1583. I have an English translation of Dariot's A Briefe and Most Easie Introduction to the Stars that was published in 1558. Todd Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:53 pm
4 by Mark Nicolaus Rensberger's Astronomia Teutsch was written in German in 1569. So that was one written in the vernacular. Thanks. Here is more on the work: http://starsandstones.wordpress.com/cat ... ensberger/ There was a translation of Haly into Castillian in the late 1200s, I think. I have a PDF copy of that somewhere, but I believe the original is in Arabic (I haven't seen that one). Thinking on it more it makes total sense that the first translation would be Catalan or Castilian with the obvious influence of Arabic astrology right on the doorstep in Muslim Spain. Remember that for Persian astrologers, Arabic would most likely have been the lingua franca of the day. Some of them were Jews, but they still spoke Arabic. Well I am really thinking more about Europe but I take your point. I assume Muslim Spain must have produced some original works rather than just copying works derivatively from the Islamic centres further east? So I suppose the first work in venacular in western Europe could have been Arabic! Hebrew wasn't a spoken language at that point outside of prayers, Torah readings, etc., so I'm not sure if we could consider ibn Ezra's work to be in the vernacular or no - if you were a Jew, you'd understand it, but vernacular - probably not. Thanks for pointing that out. I was a bit unclear about the status of Hebrew amongst medieval Jews. Still the work I cited above by Ibn Ezra was translated into old French in 1273 so thats still the oldest cited here so far. Mark Last edited by Mark on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:01 pm
5 by Mark I have an English translation of Dariot's A Briefe and Most Easie Introduction to the Stars that was published in 1558. ooops Sorry I missed your post. Clearly my error above. Or rather the unreliable source I was using ( it will remain nameless) Actuallly, Lee Lehman cites the first French translation of Dariot's work to 1558. She only cites an English translation from 1583. In reality though I can only assume the first English translation followed the French one in 1558? http://www.leelehman.com/pages/MAHARef.pdf Mark Last edited by Mark on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:10 pm
6 by toddcarnes Mark wrote:I have an English translation of Dariot's A Briefe and Most Easie Introduction to the Stars that was published in 1558. Clearly my error above. Or rather the unreliable source I was using ( it will remain nameless) Actuallly, Lee Lehman cites the first French translation of Dariot's work to 1558. She cites the first English translation as 1583. In reality though I can only assume the first English translation followed the French one in 1558? http://www.leelehman.com/pages/MAHARef.pdf Mark I'm sorry, I looked again and I was wrong... My English copy of Dariot is from 1598. I do have an earlier, Latin version as well, but that was not the original question. Sorry about that. Todd Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:17 pm
7 by margherita For what I know from the invention of the printing and in parallel with the battle of propaganda between Catholic and Protestant Church (since Luther times) were printed tons of forecasts in German, Italian and I imagine any other European languages. For example Lichtenberger Pronosticatio. But were several the copycats of more obscure astrologers of Latin texts. That's obvious, because they were real almanacs published to be sold to as many readers as possible, and Latin is not easy Of Medieval texts in addition to the ones mentioned by Olivia, there is the Castillian version of Picatrix (more or less) written in the Court of Alphonse the Wise, now is kept in the Vatican Library. margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:00 pm
8 by Mark Margherita wrote: For what I know from the invention of the printing and in parallel with the battle of propaganda between Catholic and Protestant Church (since Luther times) were printed tons of forecasts in German, Italian and I imagine any other European languages. Yes the arrival of the printing press in 1440 was perfect for the war of pamphlets in Catholic and Protestant propoganda. Although it was nearly 80 years after the printing press arrived that friends of Luther translated his 95 Theses from Latin into German and had them printed in January 1518. Margherita wrote: For example Lichtenberger Pronosticatio. I know you have put a lot of research into that. Is there anything on your website on it? Margherita wrote: Of Medieval texts in addition to the ones mentioned by Olivia, there is the Castillian version of Picatrix (more or less) written in the Court of Alphonse the Wise, now is kept in the Vatican Library. Any date for that Margherita? Do we know who the translator was? Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:03 pm
9 by astroart This got me wondering when was the first astrological text written (or translated) into a venacular European language? The first astrological book translated into a European mother tongue language (Old Castilian) was a book of Ibn ab?-r-Ri??l (Haly Abenragel) Kitab al-B?ri f? a?k?m an-nu??m( "Libro conplido en los juizios de las estrellas" or "The complete book on the judgment of the stars") completed about 1256 A.D. by order of Alfonso X of Castile (el Sabio). http://www.astro-art.com/ Quote Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:41 am
10 by Tom Back about 2004 someone posted a reference to an astrological text written in English in 1496. It is part of the Schoenberg collection of manuscripts and it is defined this way: Introduction to Astrology and Its Use in Weather Prediction, Medicine, and Agriculture Information on it can be found here: http://sceti.library.upenn.edu/ljs/view ... NID=ljs191 It can be viewed here: http://sceti.library.upenn.edu/pages/in ... =1&level=4 Back in 2004 Kim Farnell said it as definitely in English, but it is not modern English. It is probably some kind of mid point between Middle English and Modern English, but it is in the vernacular. Tom Quote Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:16 pm
11 by Mark Back about 2004 someone posted a reference to an astrological text written in English in 1496. Thanks Tom, Thats very interesting. That kind of sinks the commonly heard statement that Christian Astrology was the first astrological text written in English. Was the book published or hand written? I cant tell from the scanned copy. In this era writers had much more latitude how to spell words. In this period English grammar, spelling and pronunciation were much less standardised than they are now. I wonder how many other astrological gems like this are hidden away in the recesses of great libraries and historical collections? Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:21 pm
12 by Tom I believe we owe Dr. Johnson a huge debt for his standardizing spelling and grammar in English. Consider that this document is a bit closer to Lilly than the US Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution is to the current day. To think that unchecked, English would be so different today than it was in 1776 that we might not be able to understand either document as written is disturbing. Since this is a manuscript I have the feeling it was not printed. Printing was only about 50 years old in 1496. Quote Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:50 pm