Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hi,

having studied Horary for a wee while now, I have decided to look a bit deeper in Natal. I'm kinda swaying on which era of Astrology to start with. To help me, I have been looking at charts of some famous and/or successful people.

I came across the chart of "The Rock" Dwayne Johnson, a legend in professional wrestling previously and now a pretty successful actor. I started looking at his whole sign chart and used Valens' indicators of eminence to get a surface look at his life:



As I said, the Rock is considered one of the greatest of all time in pro-wrestling and his movies have grossed over $2 billion in the last 10 years, so I would expect his chart to be an impressive one. Looking quickly, I note that he has many of Valens' indications for eminence: Ruler of Fortune in the place of Acquisition, Spirit in the 10th from Fortune, ruler of Spirit with Basis, ruler of Basis with Fortune. I feel the sextile between the angular Mars (relative to Fortune) and the angular Mercury with reception by domicile is representative of his success in wrestling (being a mixture of talking/selling the match before the actual physical performance of it). The trigon rulers of the Sun are all angular and in dignity

My problem comes when I look at his chart in Regiomontanus:



The problem is I don't see what is so special about this chart. No bright fixed stars, lots of cadency. Using Lilly's rules for wealth, I'm not seeing how this guy is so wealthy even with the MR of Mars with Mercury. As I said, I'm not too spectacular in delineating Natal charts, does anyone see The Rock's wealth, fame and success in the Regiomontanus chart? I ask as I would like to give it a fair crack at my time before I move on from it.

Konrad wrote:

The problem is I don't see what is so special about this chart. No bright fixed stars.

He has Pollux , in the constellation of Gemini, on the MC and Aldebaran, the right eye of the Bull, on the POF. Both are reddish bright fixed stars of the nature of Mars according to Ptolemy. Albebaran is reputed to give honours to those involved in martial activities.

Mars is on the fixed star Alinam in the belt of Orion. According to Ptolemy it is of the nature Jupiter and Saturn and traditionally is reputed to give public honours to those born under its influence.

Jupiter is on Facies the nebula in the Archer's Face which according to Ptolemy is of the nature of the Moon and Mars. I thought the following comments were quite apt considering this Nebula's rather violent reputation.

Much blamed for accidents and broken limbs and so on. The Latin name is from the verb Facere, to make or do something, and it is often said to portend accidents due to the victim's own careless actions. Naturally, there is a positive side to Facies, it symbolizes well that kind of Sagittarian who goes out to climb mountains, race cars, enter the ski-jump team or the Grand National steeplechase, making it right to the top and no doubt breaking a few bones along the way The Living Stars, Dr Eric Morse.

Mark

Hi Mark, thanks for replying.

I have never understood using fixed stars on planets as wouldn't everyone born on that day have that fixed star on that planet? What is it about The Rock's chart/life that caused them to be prevalent and not Joe Smith who works down at the Post Office? For instance my father has the Sun on Regulus in the ASC and he doesn't really exhibit much of what that star portends.

Good spot on Pollux and Aldebaran, I did miss those but would they be enough to make this guy the legend he is within his profession, especially when considering the placement of the planets?

Hello Konrad,

I simply replied on your observation that there were no fixed star links in the chart which there are. I dont really have time to enter into a full discussion on fixed stars right now.

The method of projecting stars on to positions in the ecliptic/zodiacal degrees is an ancient technique that has existed since hellenistic times. Moreover, its not the case that everyone would have the angles or lots on a prominent fixed star in the same day. These positions change in minutes. However. I concede your point about planets (excluding the Moon). Although, these positions change far quicker than the position of the outer planets used by modern astrologers.

However, if you want something more exactly timed to the specific chart and its location you can use the in mundo position of stars as paranatellonta. Hence in this chart 'The Rock' had the fixed star Procyon, of the nature of Mercury and Mars in mundo culminating on his MC at his time of birth.

According to Deborah Houlding:

Classicists knew it as Procyon, before the dog, because it rises shortly before Sirius. The star Procyon is, like Sirius, a 1st magnitude star of white and yellow colour. Also like Sirius it is noted for producing rash tempers and violent activity but can portend wealth, honour and renown when well placed. Lilly said that it "designs a petulant saucy fellow, prone to anger, proud, careless, violent, giddy''.

.....With its Mercury-Mars nature, an alignment of the personal planets with Procyon is traditionally a token of inclination towards military pursuits, or active engagement in verbal/physical dispute, stratagem, or contest.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/can_minor.html

This would seem to strengthen the Mars-Mercury association of the chart reflected in the mutual reception by domicile you previously referred to.

Good spot on Pollux and Aldebaran, I did miss those but would they be enough to make this guy the legend he is within his profession, especially when considering the placement of the planets?

I can do no better than quote from William Lilly on that question:

The Fixed stars give great gifts, and elevate even from poverty to extreme height of fortune, the seven planets do not do so??
-William Lilly, Christian Astrology, 1647; p.621

This is why you find astrologers doing electional charts seeking to 'fortify' an otherwise unpromising chart with prominent, benefic fixed stars. Fixed stars are another technique in the tradition which help to identify potential eminence in the nativity. Especially, with stars on the angles (esp ASC or MC) or the Moon as these are more unique to a particular nativity.

Hopefully, other members with more time and skill in natal delineation can give you wider feedback. I am not really attempting a delineation here so I am sure there is still a lot to be unearthed.

Mark

All right, Mark, thanks. That's given me a bit more to mull over.

Hi Konrad,

What is it about The Rock's chart/life that caused them to be prevalent and not Joe Smith who works down at the Post Office?

I wish I could answer that (along with many many other astrologers ), but maybe Mark's suggestion to check the rising and culminating etc of fixed stars at the place and time of birth, is the most sensitive approach to find differences.
Using ye old techniques like whole-sign houses and place of acquisition etc, won't minimise the amount of charts of people born around the same time and place, people that should be famous/wealthy/... according to the chart... On the contrary, you 'll find a lot more charts for "around" the same time/place of birth that comply to the conditions for success!

So I guess this is something that lies outside the chart, and requires the astrologer to gather information about social level, studies, heritage, ..., maybe even genetic factors will be at play? Only, looking at the chart, we don't have access to these data...

Hi Hervaro,

you are quite right in your point about similar charts, my main problem with looking at the Rock's chart in Regiomontanus however, was that I couldn't see much of what he has become present in it. With Mark's help, I am seeing a little more than I was.

As for things like social status etc, I have considered that. His grandfather and father both were wrestlers too, although they achieved nowhere near the success and acclaim he did, in fact there are only two other wrestlers who have ever reached his heights and that is why I am still unsure as to where that is represented in the chart. The fixed stars may have some merit but I, myself, have Spica and Arcturus culminating with Rigel setting and I have had little success or acclaim in my life. I would like to make clear I am not dismissing their usage, but it does lead me to think that there must be more to this particular chart than bright stars on the angles which is there with Valens but not so apparent in Regiomontanus.

The Part of Exaltation (or Eminence) shows higher achievements than those of your family members. The better placed is this Part (and its ruler), the higher achievements you may have.

In this chart, you see his Part of Exaltation in Virgo, ruled by Mercury, which also rules Gemini, where is the Fortune. Mercury is in angle, in own bound and mutual reception with Mars, so there you have it.

Hi Tzadde,

interesting. I will test that theory out. Out of interest, which era of astrology do you draw from primarily?

I primarily use Whole Sign Houses system and I prefer the Arabic philosophical practice of Astrology. In horary, I'm leaning a little towards Lilly and a little towards other masters of Astrology.

Hello:

Konrad said:

you are quite right in your point about similar charts, my main problem with looking at the Rock's chart in Regiomontanus however, was that I couldn't see much of what he has become present in it. With Mark's help, I am seeing a little more than I was.

As for things like social status etc, I have considered that. His grandfather and father both were wrestlers too, although they achieved nowhere near the success and acclaim he did, in fact there are only two other wrestlers who have ever reached his heights and that is why I am still unsure as to where that is represented in the chart. The fixed stars may have some merit but I, myself, have Spica and Arcturus culminating with Rigel setting and I have had little success or acclaim in my life. I would like to make clear I am not dismissing their usage, but it does lead me to think that there must be more to this particular chart than bright stars on the angles which is there with Valens but not so apparent in Regiomontanus]

Hello:

To verify eminence in a chart the position of the Sun is very important. A nocturnal nativity cuts out fame by a half, exception made if the Sun is in the 5th.
In the present case, using Hellenistic procedures, and I have to say that my field is much more Medieval than Hellenistic, I would look at the trigon of the Sun, since it is a diurnal nativity
So we have to look first to Venus, after to the Moon and finally to Mars which is always acting.
None of this planets are angular : Venus is peregrine in the 9th conjunct Mars which had bound and face in the degree he is in. Mars gives to Venus some celestial support, but this does not compensate the fact that both are cadent.
Moon is angular by whole sign, but her strength is diminished because by quadrant houses she cadent and besides that she is in Capricorn, her detriment, in conjunction to a benefic, Jupiter, also in poor zodiacal state.
We can?t expect too much from the trigon lords by themselves, except by the point that the ruler of the bunch of planets in Gemini is Mercury and Mercury is in Aries and angular.
The POF is conjunct Saturn, also in the 9th and Saturn is the ASC?s almuten.
I think that we have a point here.
Saturn has tripicity in Gemini and is the lord of the Moon and Jupiter. So Saturn will use Moon and Jupiter to achieve his goals. Saturn is protected by the POF which gives wealth and health. Yes, we have a point here.
By whole signs Moon and Jupiter do not have celestial dignity but they are in the 4th house, the parent?s house.
We can say that the native, Saturn, used their parents support to achieve his goals.
We read in Wikipedia ?Dwayne Johnson, the son of Ata Johnson and professional wrestler "Soulman" Rocky Johnson, was born in Hayward, California. His maternal grandfather, "High Chief" Peter Maivia, was also a professional wrestler. His maternal grandmother, Lia Maivia, ran Polynesian Pacific Pro Wrestling from 1982 until 1988 following her husband's death, becoming one of wrestling's few female professional promoters.?
Probably if his family was not into wrestling he would not be known as he is, as Konrad observed.

The lot of Eminence as pointed out here before is at 25 of Virgo, having Mars and Venus in its 10th house, so we can say that eminence comes from an activity based on fight and charm, since Venus is the ruler of the ASC.
Saturn and POF are also in teh 10th from the Lot of Emionence.

The Lot of Base (the distance between Moon and Sun and this distance projected from the ASC) falls is Pisces. Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, a planet in the 4th house by whole signs. The lot of Base gives the ?foundation ?of ones chart.

Here you have some points to consider that can direct towards eminence.

But the cadency of most of the planets and the poor celestial state of them do not bode well if we expect durability in his career.

Just some thoughts to contribute to the discussion!

Clelia

Hi Clelia,

thanks for responding, it helps to see the same chart from so many viewpoints. You may be on to something in regards to the durability of his career; while his movies gross fairly well, he hasn't quite hit the same heights there as he did in wrestling. He is still relatively young though, so it will be interesting to see how he fares in the next few years.

One thing however, isn't the calculation you gave for the Lot of Basis the calculation for the lot of Spirit?