Skyscript Astrology Forum

This is my first post here

Recently, I've been really getting into more traditional forms of Astrology. In doing so, I interpreted my chart using traditional methods and gained a great amount of insight into almost everything that goes on in my day to day life. Unfortunately, the use of transits in the traditional scheme confuses me. For example, Saturn is in my 7th house at the moment, squaring my natal Venus. Does that mean I will feel Saturn in the house that Venus is in, the houses that Venus rules, AND the house that Saturn is in? Also, if Saturn is in Libra, does that mean he is being received by natal Venus, thus making him active in the areas of life signified by Venus? I'm hilariously confused right now, and I really need guidance.

sworm09 wrote:This is my first post here

Recently, I've been really getting into more traditional forms of Astrology. In doing so, I interpreted my chart using traditional methods and gained a great amount of insight into almost everything that goes on in my day to day life. Unfortunately, the use of transits in the traditional scheme confuses me. For example, Saturn is in my 7th house at the moment, squaring my natal Venus. Does that mean I will feel Saturn in the house that Venus is in, the houses that Venus rules, AND the house that Saturn is in? Also, if Saturn is in Libra, does that mean he is being received by natal Venus, thus making him active in the areas of life signified by Venus? I'm hilariously confused right now, and I really need guidance.

Hi sworm09 and welcome to the forum.
I'm glad that you are starting to use traditional techniques. I like you had many great insights into my life using them.

As for the transits. You will see when you'll start to read the old authors that the transits in most of the cases where last on the list of the hierarchy of prediction.
Not that they are not important, but in order their effect to be influental in significant measure, those planets needs to be activated through some other technique of time rulership or to traverse some activated place in the chart.
For example, Saturn transiting the sign of the annual profections will be important. Furthermore, if this Saturn turns retrograde or direct again in this sign, this will be even more effectual.

One more thing, not all effects of the planets are directed toward you only.
It is true that it is your chart, but traditional astrology looked at the chart as your life including all the people around you as depicted in it.
The chart is not your psyche as it is represented in more modern astrology approaches.
So, having activated Saturn in 7th it may show effects fall upon your wife, or anything else represented by that Saturn in 7th.
For example, in the year when Mars was Lord of the Year in my chart, and when Mars traversed Scorpio alongside Saturn by transit (the sign of the annual profections) my brother had severe problems. Mars is natural ruler of brothers, so this Mars which is contrary to the sect in favor in my chart, shows not only problems related to me, but to everything else that signifies in the chart.

So, having Mars and Saturn traversing Scorpio, and Scorpio (or both planets) not being activated through some other prediction techniques (such as profections or Firdaria), may pass unnoticed.

Hope this helped.

Best,
Ile

. . .

Kirk wrote:

One more thing, not all effects of the planets are directed toward you only.
It is true that it is your chart, but traditional astrology looked at the chart as your life including all the people around you as depicted in it.
The chart is not your psyche as it is represented in more modern astrology approaches.

Oh, Ile - Thanks so much for bringing that up! A while back that understanding alone blew away most of the astrological fog I was trying to work in.

I've also been saying for a while now that the chart is a map, an image, of a life and not of a person. Especially not of the psyche or soul. The chart is only a partial representation of whatever it is that incarnates.



sworm09,

I suppose I haven't helped you much. Start with knowing how to delineate Venus in your chart. What is she doing? How and where? Then you will know how to interpret a challenge from Saturn - how and where.

I suppose I still haven't helped you much.

I envy your state of hilarious confusion. It sounds pleasant. With any luck I may have added more enjoyable hilarity.

Kirk

Actually, both of you helped me! To continue with the example, Venus in my chart is a troublesome planet. She is in my 11th house, out of sect, above the horizon, and in the diurnal sign (Aquarius). My friendships are very unstable, I only have a few trusted friends, "friends" tend to leave me at the drop of a hat, and I often suffer from periods of feeling like an outcast. The transiting Saturn square seems to have really brought this into the light, especially looking at how Venus is the current time lord. Thanks again guys!

Kirk, I'm trying to remind myself often the same: that my chart is not my psyche, which is changing itself according to me evolving consciously, or that kind of stuff
I'm still sensible and fairly new to TA and need remaindering from time to time, to keep my self on the path.

Sworm09, if you are able to provide your chart here, I suppose we can be more helpful. If you don't like to expose your chart publicly, you can send me a PM, I would be glad if I can help.

Best,
Ile

Hello Sworm09,

Having delved into traditional astrology for quite some time, I cannot say that traditional astrology (referring to both medieval and hellenistic) has absolutely lifted astrology's "protean fog" when it comes to predictive work. While it has certainly lifted many of the confusions in modern astrology (or at least made some things clearer), it also creates more questions in other areas!

While a modern astrologer might look at transits as determinants of new events, a traditional astrologer usually looks at transits as manifestations (not determinants) of events that are promised in the natal chart AND constrained within the times when the planet(s) is activated via one of the timelord procedures (as Ile mentioned above).

So, why is that transiting T-square configuration of Mars-Saturn-Pluto not affecting me? Because they are all transiting planets and they are supposed to be indicative of the general ?climate? which would only affect you if the configuration hits certain natal planets especially personal natal planets.

But then, one of the planets in the T-square configuration above did hit my natal moon and I didn?t experience the promised effect? Well, perhaps your natal Moon is not the firdaria ruler(s), not the jharbhaktar, not the salkhudhay (profected lord), not the profected sign, not the decennial lord,?

We can see how this "solves" one problem faced in modern astrology (the question why certain transits or even progressions seem to pass by unnoticed) but then it creates a new problem (which timelord should I use???). There are a number of timelord methods, which to use then? Which timelord is indicative of opportunities for manifestation of the transits?

astrojin,

it is always enlightening when you make a post. thanks for sharing that! this is one reason i like to go back to working with the essential meaning of the planets themselves.. my personal view - venus is about relationships, or values as i see it, while saturn has to do with cutting back or doing away with what is not essential. to me any transit of saturn to venus is going to bring the nature of these 2 planets together to imply a change and possible letting go of what is superfluous, while also having the potential to deepen the relationships or values most close to a persons sense of self.. this may sound too modern for some, but it is my personal view on bringing 2 planets together regardless of the aspect or house or sign.

for me, i have always relied on a particular emphasis in secondary progs or solar arc directions to get more of an idea of just how much impact a transit will have, but i appreciate the fact you have pointed out just what a potential quagmire it is for someone focused solely on the traditional systems for knowing when a particular transit may be more significant or not.. thanks again!

As for the transits. You will see when you'll start to read the old authors that the transits in most of the cases where last on the list of the hierarchy of prediction.
Not that they are not important, but in order their effect to be influental in significant measure, those planets needs to be activated through some other technique of time rulership or to traverse some activated place in the chart.

Not alll transits were of equal importance. As the quote here says, they need to be activated through some other factor. In his book on Solar Returns, Abu Mashar names the ruler of the directed bound of the Ascendant and the ruler of the Solar Return Asc or Year Lord as the primary factors, though he also tosses in a whole number of other things such as the "novena" lord (his own version of the Hindu navamshas) and the firdaria lords.

So it's important to look at which planets are activated by transit before placing too great of an emphasis on them. We have all seen that some transits just don't deliver. This is a kind of rationale for why they don't. It takes some getting used to, but it's worth the effort.

Kenneth Johnson wrote:

As for the transits. You will see when you'll start to read the old authors that the transits in most of the cases where last on the list of the hierarchy of prediction.
Not that they are not important, but in order their effect to be influental in significant measure, those planets needs to be activated through some other technique of time rulership or to traverse some activated place in the chart.

Not alll transits were of equal importance. As the quote here says, they need to be activated through some other factor. In his book on Solar Returns, Abu Mashar names the ruler of the directed bound of the Ascendant and the ruler of the Solar Return Asc or Year Lord as the primary factors, though he also tosses in a whole number of other things such as the "novena" lord (his own version of the Hindu navamshas) and the firdaria lords.

So it's important to look at which planets are activated by transit before placing too great of an emphasis on them. We have all seen that some transits just don't deliver. This is a kind of rationale for why they don't. It takes some getting used to, but it's worth the effort.

Hmm, this is interesting. Currently Venus is a time lord under the Firdaria system, so that's probably why I felt it. But to take it further, does that mean that planets that transit though houses ruled by Venus, will become more noticeable? For example, Libra is intercepted in the 7th house, so as Saturn transits that house, will that make it more potent?