Skyscript Astrology Forum

"Cazimi or "in the heart of the Sun", is the position of a planet in tight conjunction with the Sun within 17' (minutes of arc). The Sun's radius on the sky is 17'. This planetary position is said to be one of great strength, the planet is fortified by the Sun's rays. Also called "zaminium". William Lilly, the 17th century authority in horary astrology, said of a cazimi planet to be "wonderous strong".

Hi

While looking at a cousins chart to check his 8th house Sun I found he has Sun /mercury cazimi in Cancer in 8th place in WSH. Yet this guy always had problems with study,repeating all school years eventually dropping out of school to take up delivery jobs. Today he is a security man at a Mall. mercury rules 10th too and Sun 9th place. MC ruler venus is in 9th suggesting movement at work,like driving,but he doesnt travel abroad. But given what Mark says above about Cazimi im surprised.
Unless the 8th overwhelms all of it

Born: 6 july 1970 19.20 London

Well like I said in the other thread, I suspect it's some other affliction perhaps.

In this case being in the 8th house isn't a great start. But we also have a besiegement, with the Mercury-Sun conjunction separating from Saturn and applying to Mars - Mars being the malefic contrary to sect and in fall and already conjunct by whole sign. The Moon is helping the process along by translating her light and doing so from the place of Saturn's fall.

(Btw I don't really agree that a cazimi mercury shows excellence at school either so I'm not sure that's a good example.)

SN is in 10th WSH- that isn't a very happy place either.

If one ignores WSH and uses normal placidus houses- venus 10th lord is squared by saturn.

JUpiter is in 10th !!!

Has he ever said that he is unhappy with his professional life ?

PD

Added to the above, both lots are real close to oppositions with the malefics (Mars is actually partile the Lot of Fortune), and in a Sidereal ayanamsa, Mars is applying the ruler of Fortune, Jupiter, via overcoming square.

I think it has been said before, but basing a delineation on solely one aspect is only going to lead to erroneous predictions.

Konrad wrote:Added to the above, both lots are real close to oppositions with the malefics (Mars is actually partile the Lot of Fortune), and in a Sidereal ayanamsa, Mars is applying the ruler of Fortune, Jupiter, via overcoming square.

I think it has been said before, but basing a delineation on solely one aspect is only going to lead to erroneous predictions.

yep but in his case was poor school performance that led to menial jobs so one should look for low inteligence markers.

Panka,he never said that but it is obvious from his look that is not happy with his situation

damon wrote:

Konrad wrote:Added to the above, both lots are real close to oppositions with the malefics (Mars is actually partile the Lot of Fortune), and in a Sidereal ayanamsa, Mars is applying the ruler of Fortune, Jupiter, via overcoming square.

I think it has been said before, but basing a delineation on solely one aspect is only going to lead to erroneous predictions.

yep but in his case was poor school performance that led to menial jobs so one should look for low inteligence markers.

Not really, you're assuming that all people who get good grades in school are intelligent and all those who don't, are not. This isn't true. I would garner from the lots alone that he makes bad decisions (debilitated Saturn opposing Spirit while Mars is in aversion to the ASC and under the beams while ruling it) and that he doesn't get much of a break from fate either (Mars dominating Jupiter and opposing Fortune). Intelligence doesn't come into it.

i dont know if he made bad decisions regarding study but having two daughters doesnt seem to be a good decision since he had to ask his father to pay the rent as his income isnt enough.
His life has been unstable indeed

Coley defined Cazimi as being within 17 minutes longitude and latitude of the centre of the sun. I don't know if that was from experience or from 'the Ancients' somewhere, but in this case Mercury has a latitude of 1 degree 21 minutes, so there is argument that it is not cazimi, just combust, which might explain a lot.

Geoffrey

Geoffrey wrote:Coley defined Cazimi as being within 17 minutes longitude and latitude of the centre of the sun. I don't knJow if that was from experience or from 'the Ancients' somewhere, but in this case Mercury has a latitude of 1 degree 21 minutes, so there is argument that it is not cazimi, just combust, which might explain a lot.

Coley, Key to the whole Art of Astrology, p.96, XII., as you say, Geoffrey, but only:
"16 minutes of his [the Sun's] Body, in respect of Longitutde and Latitude."

Latitdude is claimed only by few classical authors, if at all. To the best of my remembrance one of them is Al Biruni.

Johannes[/b]

Damon wrote:

But given what Mark says above about Cazimi im surprised.

I dont claim to be any sort of astrological authority on this damon. I was merely reporting what the astrological tradition states.

I think Robert Zoller taught his students that you needed at least 200 charts to test out an astrological technique or principle. For serious research that looks more sensible than judging something from half a dozen charts.

Mark

Geoffrey wrote:Coley defined Cazimi as being within 17 minutes longitude and latitude of the centre of the sun. I don't know if that was from experience or from 'the Ancients' somewhere, but in this case Mercury has a latitude of 1 degree 21 minutes, so there is argument that it is not cazimi, just combust, which might explain a lot.

Geoffrey

Yeah, I've read this view before too but it kinda defeats the purpose of projecting everything onto the Ecliptic, in my opinion.

One thing that has always bothered me about Cazimi is the nature of the dignity, is it essential, accidental or both? By that I mean do you want a debilitated, afflicted, out-of-sect Saturn Cazimi? If anyone has any charts with an out-of-sect malefic cazimi then I would appreciate the link to it.

Good morning,

Perhaps Mr Damon will tell us the latitude of the conjunction being considered. Already Klaudios Ptolomaios encouraged the consideration of ecliptical latitude in conjunctions. In Tetrabiblos, Book I, Section 24, in the translation by Professor Frank Robbins, one reads (emphasis added):

24. Of Applications and Separations and the Other Powers.

In general those which precede 127 are said to "apply" 128 to those which follow, and those that follow to "be separated" from those that precede, when the interval between them is not great. 129 Such p115 a relation is taken to exist whether it happens by bodily conjunction 130 or through one of the traditional aspects, except that with respect to the bodily applications and separations of the heavenly bodies it is of use also to observe their latitudes, in order that only those passages may be accepted which are found to be on the same side of the ecliptic. 131 In the case of applications and separations by aspect, however, such a practice is superfluous, because all rays always fall and similarly converge from every direction upon the same point, that is, the centre of the earth. 132

Configurations amongst planets are, as far as i know accidental, not essential, debilities or honours. Aristotle defined essential and accidental.

Mr Robert Zoller was roughly correct concerning sample size. At least 246 randomly chosen samples are required to obtain a statistical power of 60 %.

A comparison: not claiming statistical demonstration of validity, the Professor of Mathematics Signor Placido di Titi included 30 deliberately, not randomly, selected genitures at the end of his book Primum Mobile.

The lack of statistical demonstrations of validity is one of astrological systems' Achilles' heels opening them to attacks by sceptics. Usually, if at all, astrological texts are documented by a small number of deliberately chosen examples. However, the systems astrology studies (ex. gr. humans, weather and other mundane phenomena) are very complex and organic, not simple and mechanical. They often defy very costly, elaborate 'scientific' predictive techniques.

Best regards,

lihin