Skyscript Astrology Forum

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Zoomaster wrote:

Also, if posting a chart, please be conscientious enough to utilize Whole Sign Houses. As this is the traditional forum, I do not consider this request to be too imposing.

This is the traditional forum which means we look at methods from the Egyptians and Babylonians up the 19th century. Why should members post in your preferred house system if they dont work with it?

All kinds of houses have been used in the astrological tradition. In the medieval period Alcabitius predominated. Then Regiomontanus replaced it as the most popular system. Other systems such as Campanus found favour too. In the 19th century the Placidus house system effectively replaced these systems.

However, you frequently find that the person a house system was named after was not its the original proponent. For example Placidus houses appear to have been used by the Jewish medieval astrologer Ibn Ezra. Even he doesn't seem to have been its first proponent. Campanus was also proposed in arabic astrology.

Looking at hellenistic astrology we find a variety of systems being used.

For example we see Porphyry, Firmicus, Rhetorius, and Hephaistio utilising various systems of sign division for natal analysis. Moreover, the systems actually used by Ptolemy and Manilius remain controversial.

I am not denying whole sign houses were probably the original system. I also utilise whole sign houses myself. However, I dont think we should seek to impose our personal views and preferences on others on what is the most traditional house system. As I have indicated numerous house systems have been used by some of the greatest figures in astrological history.

All I think we can honestly say as an astrologer is that we find a particular system more effective in our experience. Apart from anything else you are limiting the amount of feedback you are likely to get by stipulating replies in one system.

Sorry if my reply was so long winded. However, I felt your comment contained an important assumption I wanted to challenge.

Now to get back to your question I did see the chart of a French serial killer that looked exceptionally difficult. I can post that here if anyone is interested.

Mark

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You do realise that the Zodiac, Tropical or Sidereal, is an imaginary division too, right? Or that you are projecting planets onto the Ecliptic so that some may be risen in the sky but under the Earth in a chart? I'm sure you do but your point makes no sense when considering these points and others like them. If you are going to base your astrology off of only natural phenomena, you arent' going to be left with much to delineate.

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Konrad wrote:

You do realise that the Zodiac, Tropical or Sidereal, is an imaginary division too, right? Or that you are projecting planets onto the Ecliptic so that some may be risen in the sky but under the Earth in a chart? I'm sure you do but your point makes no sense when considering these points and others like them. If you are going to base your astrology off of only natural phenomena, you arent' going to be left with much to delineate.

I totally concur on all this. Astrology is built on symbolism that requires human perception to see. As the old saying goes 'people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Mark

zoomaster wrote:Are you arguing against the usage of Whole Sign Houses?

Forgive me for being brusque. I would argue that there is far more "imagination" necessary in the usage of Quadrant House Systems compared to that of Whole Sign Houses, which is strictly based upon signs on the ecliptic (I am speaking of tropical, not sidereal astrology.)

No, I'm pointing out your thinking is flawed and illogical.

I don't have a problem with "imagination" since most of the astrology we use is based upon such things.

So to sum up, you use a system based upon the Sun's position at the Spring Equinox and divide the sky up 12 times from there, giving 30 degrees of Ecliptical longitude to each section and you have a problem with quadrant houses because they are imaginary? I don't see how using one set of 12 "imaginary" lines is any different to using 12 sets of another, but each to their own, I suppose.

Out of interest, do you project the planets to the Ecliptic too? What about fixed stars? Do you use Lots?

Zoomaster wrote:

I would argue that there is far more "imagination" necessary in the usage of Quadrant House Systems compared to that of Whole Sign Houses, which is strictly based upon signs on the ecliptic.

While I use whole sign houses and find them very effective the four angles of the chart are places where planets become very powerful.

I use these angles within whole sign houses. So as a measure of planetary strength (rather than topic or place meaning) quadrants can be extremely useful in determining how angular planets are. Rather than seeing quadrants as houses you can simply use them as zones of strong, weak and intermediate strength for a planet.

You seem to want a theoretical debate on the merits of whole sign vs quadrant houses. I personally think such debates are a bit fruitless. Its like theoretical arguments between tropicalists and siderealists. People can argue until the cows come home and nothing is resolved. Far better to work with the astrology that makes sense to you and be the best at that you can be.

Mark

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Ok Zoomaster. Prepare to reap the whirlwind.

I am a moderator. What new topic title do you want?

I suggest you edit your original post to reflect the new topic. However, please keep your comment on preferred house system in or my response becomes meaningless.

Mark

zoomaster wrote:You appear to be confusing the zodiac with the application of the zodiac as the basis for the Whole Sign House system.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that the zodiac doesn't exist outside of human perpection which resembles your misgivings about the use of a quadrant-based house system.

The rest of it, I think you have misunderstood my meaning and the mechanics of the tropical zodiac.

I've made my points, so I think I will just leave it there. Thanks answering the questions I asked at the end of the last post.

Also, if posting a chart, please be conscientious enough to utilize Whole Sign Houses. As this is the traditional forum, I do not consider this request to be too imposing.

This is rude. You're equating a lack of conscience with using a quadrant system. You're tacitly claiming that whole signs should be the only house system used in a traditional forum. Finally you state that your ideas of what are imposing and not imposing are pretty much all that matters.

I have no problem with asking respondents to cite which house system they are using, but to snidely instruct them on which system to use for your posts is a bit over the top. This has nothing to do with which house system one thinks is best. You might wish to start over with a new thread.