Skyscript Astrology Forum

Graham F wrote:What I'd like to know (Martin?) is what connotations "?ikhi" might carry in Sanskrit - could it get us away from the Ketu:comet/Mars association? And is the etymology of R??i as R?-?i potentially valid?

Martin Gansten wrote:
As for etymology, it's important to understand that traditional Indian etymology is basically ahistorical. Because Sanskrit is perceived as a perfect and eternal language, its historical development is a non-issue. Instead, etymology or nirukta is concerned with finding the inner (and sometimes hidden) meaning of words, often by treating them as acronyms. A single author may offer several such explanations of one and the same word, treating them all as equally valid. Common examples of this process are the words guru and ha?ha (as in ha?ha-yoga) -- try Google and you'll see.

I remember a while back finding a post with comments by Martin about the Indian attribution of Mars-like and firey qualities to Ketu, and the probable connection with the fact that comets wre also called Ketu. Can't find it now, but I found it very interesting - I knew of ketu meaning comet, but had never thought to make the connection.

This may be a bit off topic but during my research on the astrology of comets I have discovered most ancient Indian texts describe comets as Ketu. Although there are noteable exceptions, most comets are described in these texts as malefic. Ketu is often described as the dragon's tail, which gives birth to comets and meteors and is known as the descending or the south node of the Moon. I strongly suspect the south node acquired its malefic, fiery association in Indian astrology by linkage to comets.

The ?gveda (5.40.5) tells of a demon named Svarbh?nu afflicting the sun with darkness. In the Atharvaveda (19.9.10), R?hu occurs as a synonym for this demon, while the Ch?ndogya-Upani?ad (8.13.1) speaks of the moon escaping ?from the mouth of R?hu.? Later texts confirm the role of R?hu (perhaps derived from a verb meaning ?to grasp?) as an eclipse demon swallowing the sun or moon.

With the increase of astronomical knowledge, eclipses were understood to be the result of the relative positions of the earth, sun and moon. As the moon passes in front of the sun near the point where their apparent orbits intersect (the lunar node), it obscures the sun and a solar eclipse occurs. When the moon is on the other side of the earth, near the opposite node, the earth?s shadow falling on the moon causes a lunar eclipse. By the early centuries CE, R?hu was thus identified with whichever lunar node happened to be involved in an eclipse. Some astronomical texts speak of the ascending or northern node as R?hu?s mouth, and of the descending or southern node as his tail.

Ketu originally had no connection with R?hu, and was not included with it in the earliest texts of Indianized Hellenistic astrology (3rd to 4th centuries CE). The Sanskrit word ketu refers to something bright, such as a flame, but also to a flag or banner. As such, it was a common word for celestial phenomena such as comets and meteors, more than a hundred of which were described in pre-Hellenistic texts on celestial omens. Eventually these Ketus were included collectively as the ninth item in the list of grahas or planets, but were still discussed in the plural. Only in the 8th or 9th century do the names R?hu and Ketu seem to acquire the meanings which they have since held, being identified with the north and south nodes of the moon, respectively.

james_m wrote:here is something from wikipedia which you may or may not agree with..
"Modern Hinduism can be regarded as a combination of Vedic and Shramana traditions as it is substantially influenced by both traditions.

Though ideas of Karma, Liberation and Samsara are present in the early vedic texts, concise arguments and definitions arose from the Shramana tradition."

R?hu is inimical toward both the sun and the moon, and therefore he always tries to cover the sunshine and moonshine on the dark-moon day and full-moon night.

Only in the 8th or 9th century do the names R?hu and Ketu seem to acquire the meanings which they have since held, being identified with the north and south nodes of the moon, respectively.

Mark wrote:I would be very interested to know what is the earliest source you have identified making the direct link between Rahu and Ketu to describe the nodes?