Skyscript Astrology Forum

Good afternoon,

Reference is made to Dr. phil. George C. Noonan's two astrological books:

Classical Scientific Astrology

and

Fixed Stars and Judicial Astrology

first published before the 'wave' of rekindled interest in non-modern astrology.

In my humble opinion Dr. Noonan was more coherent than many but not entirely so. Although he rejected the astrological use of noviens and dodecatemoria as being too small intervals, he included interpretations of degrees of the zodiac, both 'active and passive' and various kinds of brightness. Abu'l Rayhan Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Al-Biruni, whom Dr. Noonan quoted frequently and upon whose work much of the first book relies, expressed doubts about the former. It may be of interest to mention that Al-Biruni, who worked with the tropical zodiac of the northern hemisphere, adjusted the latter to reflect the geocentric procession of fixed stars in respect of the vernal equinox at his lifetime.

Current astrology software developers will find several 'to-dos' in Dr. Noonan's books. Dr. Noonan included extensive formulae in the appendices. His books merit study.

Best regards,

lihin

Lihin wrote[/quote]It may be of interest to mention that Al-Biruni, who worked with the tropical zodiac of the northern hemisphere, adjusted the latter to reflect the geocentric procession of fixed stars in respect of the vernal equinox at his lifetime.

I presume you mean "precession", but I don't understand how it can be both tropical and "adjusted [..] to reflect the geocentric procession of fixed stars in respect of the vernal equinox at his lifetime." That sounds like a pretty good definition of sidereal.
Graham

Good morning,

From, as stated above, a geocentric perspective the fixed stars proceed compared to the vernal equinox. For example, Regulus appears to have moved into the tropical, northern hemisphere sign of Virgo.

If by contrast one chooses some fixed stellar reference close to the ecliptic, id est a non-geocentric reference, the vernal equinox appears to move retrograde along the ecliptic in relation to such a fixed stellar object or point. However, no-one here at the forum has yet to my knowledge proposed a criterion or criteria to select amongst the 20 - 30, with new ones not seldom being proposed, 'sidereal' zodiacs included in several astrology software programmes. Perhaps there is revealed a priori absolute and thus unquestionable 'chanelled' wisdom that has unquivocally indicated such a choice.

Which, if either, model, is 'right', which is 'wrong' and why? To what extent have any of such astrological models been reasonably experimentally verified? Even amongst astrologers working with a tropical zodiac there is controversy on whether there is one for both northern and southern hemispheres or one for each hemisphere with the two set off from each other by 6 signs. Again, what even relative experimental verification, aside from a few 'anecdotal' charts positively selected, exists for either opinion?

Dr. phil. George C. Noonan in his second above mentioned book about fixed stars dealt in some detail with the astrological controversy about zodiacs as it had already raged intensively by the 1980s.

Best regards,

lihin

Quite right, I now understand you are using "procession" as the opposite of "precession". Thank you for clarifying.

The choice of sidereal reference point (and therefore of offset from tropical, i.e. "ayanamsa") is indeed a real subject of debate, rather like house systems are. I am not attempting to convert you to using a sidereal zodiac and don't quite understand why the issue interests you so much, as you have clearly already made up your mind. I was simply pointing out that to say that Al-Biruni "worked with the tropical zodiac of the northern hemisphere, adjusted the latter to reflect the geocentric procession of fixed stars in respect of the vernal equinox at his lifetime" seems to me to say that he used the sidereal zodiac, but was nevertheless interested in where the VP fell therein. I do not know if this is true or not.
Best wishes
Graham