Hi Folks,

Here's my theory.

In 2023 Pluto starts its move into Aquarius.

Everytime Pluto has changed signs there has been a massive change on Earth.

That' no surprise but we often have NOT been ready. Let's be this time.


I'd be glad if my facts are checked but here are the past experiences.

Pluto into Cancer saw WWI 1914
Pluto into Leo saw WWII 1939

Pluto into Virgo saw the Iron Curtain close 1950s
Pluto into Libra saw the Energy crisis 1970s

Pluto into Scorpio saw the collapse of the Soviet Regime 1987
Pluto into Sagittarius saw the mental breakdown in borders called Globalism 1997

Pluto into Capricorn saw ? Yes Bob Marks saw it !! Contraction of Credit 2008

So in 2023 Pluto starts its move into Aquarius. You'd think that it'd be pretty simple to see what's coming but it'll be necessary to build up a picture from a few years before.

Anyway at a simple level we can say that Aquarius is the sign of the modern. So we will dramatic rebalancing and testing of our modern way of life. I see it as technological breakdown or simply global warming coming home to roost. Aquarius rules electricity so perhaps something goes badly wrong there.

Perhaps the mental use of Wii Fi overwhelms as I think it is already doing. or GPS fails and with it the 15 % of our daily life dependant upon it.

That's my starting point.

I'd be pleased to see what ideas you have. I think the seeds are being sown now.

H.

Hello Rocko,

Actually what you describe as 'my theory' has been out there for some time in the astrological community. Quite a few modern astrologers have looked at the transit of outer planets through the signs as indicators of social and historical change.

For example, back in 2005 the following book was published by the AFA which focused on the placement of Pluto in the various signs as a chronometer of history.

Why History Repeats: Mass movements & the generations past - present - future by Theresa H. McDevitt

From Dave Roell's review of this book on his site Astrology Center of America:

This is a book about what happened in the world as Pluto transits from one sign to another. McDevitt starts with a Pluto in Aquarius period back in 305 AD, but doesn't go consecutively (sign by sign) until Pluto hit Leo in 1201 AD. She extends her survey into the future, to Pluto in Gemini, 2127-2159, but as this is a survey book, it might be best to pass over speculation.

Pluto exerts a fascination. A few months after it entered Cancer in 1914, World War 1 broke out. A few months after it entered Leo in 1939, World War 2 broke out. A few months after it entered Virgo in 1957, the Space Race. Libra in 1972, Gay culture; Scorpio in 1983, AIDS; Sagittarius in 1995: Hysteria. (These, by the way, are my terms. McDevitt agrees with some of them.) Clearly, a planet that produces such results is one to track closely.

In olden times, astrological cycles were built around the great conjunctions of Jupiter & Saturn (every 20 years), which, under the name of Great Mutations, were further qualified by the element in which the conjunctions took place. The Earth Mutation, for example, started in 1842 & will end in 2040 (for more, see Barbara Koval's excellent work in Time & Money, Llewellyn, 1993, sadly out of print). There are many additional cycles of which financial astrologers have long been aware. Modern natal astrologers, by contrast, tend to limit themselves to a planet's journey through the signs, as here.

I agree very much with this final point of Dave Roell. In my view a lot of modern mundane work is rather blinkered like this in attempting to reduce historical cycles to the movement one planet. I am not saying this approach has no value. I just think it needs to be combined with a wider vision of astrological cycles.

For example, the next Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in 2020 occurs at 00'29 Aquarius. So even without the transit of Pluto into Aquarius we have an increased emphasis on that sign during 2020-2040.

I also very much like the approach of astrologers like Palden Jenkins who focus on the synodic cycles of the outer planets throughout the broad sweep of history.

http://cura.free.fr/xx/20palden.html

Mark

Good afternoon,

And what about the Eris cycles, please? Eris has about 30 % mass than Pluto and is also a Plutoid dwarf planet.

Best regards,

lihin

Lithin wrote:

And what about the Eris cycles, please? Eris has about 30 % mass than Pluto and is also a Plutoid dwarf planet.

Although the original post was about the merits of using Pluto as an exclusive chronometer of history I guess you do have a valid point here in bringing in Eris since as you state it is a dwarf planet and a larger body than Pluto.

I suppose since it has only been discovered since 2005 there is inevitably a time lapse for modern astrology to incorporate it into its considerations.

Eris is defined as a a trans-Neptunian dwarf planet. Perhaps in future the Trans-Neptunian bodies will be treated collectively by astrologers rather like the centaurs or asteroids.

One consideration is that because of its distance out from the Sun the orbital period of Eris is much longer than Pluto. In fact over twice as long. Hence while the orbital period of Pluto is 246.04 years the orbital period for Eris is 560.90 years. Eris therefore spends far longer in a sign than Pluto. Moreover, due to its highly inclined orbit of 557 years Eris can take anywhere from 15 to 123 years to go through each sign of the zodiac! It is presently at its farthest point in tropical Aries. Hence Eris has been in tropical Aries since 1926 and doesn't leave that sign until 2045.

So from the point of view of interpreting human events its possibly less useful for specific events than other planetary bodies.

A few articles on the astrology of Eris:

http://www.librarising.com/astrology/mi ... lanet.html

http://darkstarastrology.com/eris/

http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co ... ation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_(dwarf_planet)

Mark

Pluto transited into

Gemini in 1884
Taurus in 1853
Aries in 1824

Now I need to track down the major world event as that occured then.

H

Rocko wrote:Pluto transited into

Gemini in 1884
Taurus in 1853
Aries in 1824

Now I need to track down the major world event as that occured then.

H

Even though I doubt the calculation of Pluto is precise enough for such relatively long time periods (do not all experts agree on this?), I insert the link to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1884

and would highlight these three events (beside more important perhaps?)because their lasting impact until today:

1884
March 14 - The Paris Conference which protects undersea telephone cables.
October 13 - The International Meridian Conference in Washington, DC decides the Meridian of Greenwich to be the international zero meridian.
November 15 - The Berlin Conference which regulates European colonisation and trade in Africa begins (ends February 26, 1885).

Johannes

Hi,

Thanks for the input.

I'll look into your man Erios abit and ofcourse Pluto ingres, and Neptune and Uranus are just starting points.

Cyclic interactions of the big planets are fascinating.

Has there been any work on the ingres-s of Uranus and Neptune.

These are big events that bring about substantial from nowhere changes.

Further, I'm very interested in other members opinions of what will happen in 2023/4 when Pluto transits into Aquarius.

This is the theme of the thread. rm what I've been reading it does look like there will be grim reaping.

You just have to keep your ears and eyes open to the mental dependence on technology that is being built into our lives.

It's as if everything that can be computerised is being computerised. Without thought for what happens if those systems go down.

But really we need to do a systematic analysis of what the stars are telling us.

Finally, I've been reading about the Solar field. ?

This is a plain set up by the sun, the Earth and the Nodes. This is not something I've come across before and would be interested if anybody has practical experience with this and exactly how it is calculated.

The Earth isn't usually included in Astro calculations in my mind.

Cheers Folks but very keen to have input into what is being set up for 2023/4.

H

OK I went away and thought about wht people have written.

Very interesting. Thanks.

Ofcourse I drifted off toward Uranus rather than Aquarius.

We've got to consider what is being set up in Aquarius that will be stressed tested by Pluto in 2024.

Think we have got to consider the Fixed Cross and what health issues might appear.

From what I've read there will be plenty to be trashed.

Finally it's a bizaree question but can we narrow things down to a house or is it just Aquarius like.

Anyway

Rebellious Group Activity
Democracy
Mutuals

Electricity
Electronics
Public Utilities
Computers
Appliances
Radios
Communications
Transportation

H

Pluto was last in Aquarius from 1777-1798. I think to understand the future of such cycles we need to study the experience of previous periods of Pluto in Aquarius. Of course we need to consider other cycles as possible explanations for some of these developments too.

Keys themes:

Revolutions/Rebellions-USA, France, Belgium, Poland, China, Haiti, Poland, Brazil & Peru

Rise of new states/destruction of old ones

Demise: Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, independent Indian Kingdoms, and Republic of Venice all disappear in this period.

Rise: Prussia, USA, Canada, British power in India and colonization of Australia. Establishment of current Thai Royal Dynasty.

-Laki Volcanic eruption in Iceland with serious environmental effects across Europe.

-Famines in Europe, Asia and Africa caused by Laki eruption and a major El Ni?o event lasting from 1789 CE to 1795 CE

-Ideas of religious toleration, constitutional rights, civil liberty, republicanism, Feminism and Anti-Slavery ideas emerge or gain more prominence.

Intellectual developments

The Rights of Man (1791)-by Thomas Paine. A republican, democratic work developing Paine's earlier works such as 'Common sense' (1776)

A Vindication of the Rights of woman (1792) by Mary Wollstonecraft. A Vindication of the Rights of Woman is one of the earliest works of feminist philosophy.

Immanuel Kant ( 22 April 1724 ? 12 February 1804) was a German philosopher who is widely considered to be a central figure of modern philosophy. He argued that human concepts and categories structure our view of the world and its laws, and that reason is the source of morality. His thought continues to hold a major influence in contemporary thought, especially in fields such as metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, political philosophy, and aesthetics.

Kant's major work, the Critique of Pure Reason (Kritik der reinen Vernunft, 1781), aimed to bring reason together with experience and to move beyond what he took to be failures of traditional philosophy and metaphysics. He hoped to end an age of speculation where objects outside experience were seen to support what he saw as futile theories, while resisting the skepticism of thinkers such as Hume.

-This period is marked by a sharp increase in abolitionist publications (ie anti-slavery) publications appeared in England from the 1780's onwards. Political agitation against slavery also gained considerable momentum in this period. Thomas Clarkson formed the first abolitionist committee in 1787. William Wilberforce made his first speech in the British parliament against slavery in 1789.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/c ... gners.html

Political events

-America-American Revolutionary war began in 1775 continues. Success of American revolution eventually leads to the foundation of the United States of America in 1789. Current US constitution and key institutions such as Presidency, Congress, Senate, Supreme Court all stem from this period.

-Canada-(1791) The Constitutional Act (Or Canada Act) creates the two provinces of Upper and Lower Canada in British North America.

1793: Upper Canada bans slavery.

-France (1789) The French Revolution followed by the Committee of Public Safety under the control of Maximilien Robespierre, The Jacobins unleashed the Reign of Terror (1793?1794) under Robespierre.

-France On 27 July 1794, the Thermidorian Reaction led to the arrest and execution of Robespierre, Louis de Saint-Just, and other leading Jacobins.

-In the wake of excesses of the Terror, the Convention approved the new "Constitution of the Year III" on 22 August 1795. This was the first French constitution approved by a public vote. The Constitution of 1795 established a liberal republic with a franchise based on the payment of taxes, similar to that of the French Constitution of 1791; a bicameral legislature, (Council of Ancients, and a Council of 500) to slow down the legislative process; and a five-man Directory. The central government retained great power, including emergency powers to curb freedom of the press and freedom of association.

After Pluto moved into Pisces Napoleon Bonaparte staged the military coup of 18 Brumaire which installed the Consulate On 9 November 1799

Poland-Lithuania

(1794) The Ko?ciuszko Uprising was an uprising against Imperial Russia and the Kingdom of Prussia led by Tadeusz Ko?ciuszko in the Commonwealth of Poland and the Prussian partition in 1794. It was a failed attempt to liberate Poland and Lithuania from Russian influence after the Second Partition of Poland (1793)

(1795) -The Third Partition of Poland (1795) was the last in a series of the Partitions of Poland of the land of the Polish?Lithuanian Commonwealth among Prussia, the Austrian Empire, and the Russian Empire which effectively ended Polish-Lithuanian national sovereignty until 1918.

-Prussia-The rise of Prussia under Frederick the Great, the first "King of Prussia", practised enlightened absolutism. He introduced a general civil code, abolished torture, and established the principle that the Crown would not interfere in matters of justice. He also promoted an advanced secondary education, the forerunner of today's German gymnasium (grammar school) system. The Prussian education system was emulated in various countries, including the United States. During this period, he also opened Prussia's borders to immigrants fleeing from religious persecution in other parts of Europe, such as the Huguenots. Prussia became a safe haven in much the same way that the United States welcomed immigrants seeking freedom in the 19th century. During the reign of King Frederick William II (1786?1797) Prussian territory increased at the expense of Poland.

-Republic of Venice-(1797) Napoleon's invasion and partition of the Republic of Venice ended over 1,000 years of independence for the Republic

-Belgium-(1790) United States of Belgium proclaimed following the Brabant Revolution.


-Denmark
March 16, 1792: Denmark decides to stop the so-called "trade with Negroes" to the Caribbean colonies. The King and politicians are under pressure from the growing anti-slave lobby, but the decision is not made for moral reasons. It is based on harsh economic calculations: Denmark simply no longer makes enough profit on the trade.

The new law only mentions import of slaves to the Caribbean islands. It is not a general ban on slavery. Furthermore the law is not to be effective until 1803. Result: In the following ten years the slave traders intensifies their efforts to make as much profit as possible on human lives.

Great Britain
April 2, 1792: Britain passes a law similar to the Danish - with effect from 1807. Both countries laws was a stop for the import of slaves to the colonies, not a decision to actually abolish slavery itself. Within the following years all the European countries and America makes similar laws, but slavery and the trade with people continues to be legal.

-China-White Lotus Rebellion & The Miao Rebellion

The White Lotus Rebellion (1794?1804) was a rebellion that occurred during the Qing Dynasty of China. It broke out in 1794, and was at full height in 1796, among impoverished settlers in the mountainous region that separates Sichuan province from Hubei and Shaanxi provinces.
Although the rebellion was finally crushed by the Qing government in 1804, it marked a turning point in the history of the Qing dynasty. Qing control weakened and prosperity diminished by the 19th century.
The Rebellion is estimated to have caused the deaths of some 100,000 rebels

The Miao Rebellion of (1795-1806) was an anti-Qing uprising in Hunan and Guizhou provinces, during the reign of emperor Jiaqing. It was catalyzed by tensions between local populations and Han Chinese immigrants. Bloodily suppressed, it served as the antecedent to the much larger uprising of Miao Rebellion (1854?73).

-Thailand (Siam)-(1782) Founding of the Chakri royal Dynasty established the current ruling royal house of the Kingdom of Thailand. The dynasty has ruled Thailand since that time when the capital of Thailand (then Siam) moved to Bangkok.

-Brazil (1789) Joaquim Jose da Silva Xavier led the first (unsuccessful) Brazilian rebellion against Portugal. Subsequently executed.

-Haiti The Haitian Revolution (1791?1804) was a slave revolt in the French colony of Saint-Domingue, which culminated in the elimination of slavery there and the founding of the Haitian republic. The Haitian Revolution was the only slave revolt which led to the founding of a state. Furthermore, it is generally considered the most successful slave rebellion ever to have occurred in the Americas and as a defining moment in the history of Africans in the New World. The rebellion began with a revolt of black African slaves in August 1791. It ended in November 1803 with the French defeat at the battle of Vertieres. Haiti became an independent country on January 1,1804.

-India-Series of 4 Anglo-Mysore wars between British East India Company and Kingdom of Mysore. The Mysore leader Tipu Sultan was killed in a final battle with the British forces in 1799.

-Africa-(1787) Freed slaves from London founded Freetown in present-day Sierra Leone.

-Peru (1780) Outbreak of indigenous rebellion led by T?pac Amaru II in Peru.

-Australia (1788) First European settlement established in Australia at Sydney by Great Britain under Captain Cook.

Environmental Events

-Iceland (1783) Famine in Iceland caused by the eruption of the Laki volcano.

Laki Volcanic Eruption-(1783-84) The system erupted over an eight-month period between 1783 and 1784 from the Laki fissure and the adjoining Gr?msv?tn volcano, pouring out an estimated 14 km3 (3.4 cu mi) of basalt lava and clouds of poisonous hydrofluoric acid and sulfur dioxide compounds that killed over 50% of Iceland's livestock population, leading to a famine that killed approximately 25% of the island's human population.

The Laki eruption and its aftermath caused a drop in global temperatures, as sulfur dioxide was spewed into the Northern Hemisphere. This caused crop failures in Europe and may have caused droughts in India. The eruption has been estimated to have killed over six million people globally,making the eruption the deadliest in historical times.

India-The Doji bara famine (also, Skull famine) of 1791-92 in South India and the The Chalisa famine of 1783?84 in North India were brought on by a major El Ni?o event lasting from 1789 CE to 1795 CE and producing prolonged droughts. One of the most severe famines ever recorded. People died in such numbers that they could not be cremated or buried. It is thought that 11 million people may have died during the years 1788?94.

Japan-The Great Tenmei famine was a famine which affected Japan during the Edo period. It is considered to have begun in 1782, and lasted until 1788. It was named after the Tenmei era (1781-1789), during the reign of Emperor K?kaku. The ruling shoguns during the famine were Tokugawa Ieharu and Tokugawa Ienari. The famine was the deadliest one during the early modern period in Japan.

1784 Egypt-Widespread famine throughout Egypt
1784?1785 Tunisia-Famine in Tunisia killed up to one-fifth of all Tunisians
1788 France-The two years previous to the French Revolution saw bad harvests and harsh winters, possibly because of a strong El Ni?o cycle or caused by the 1783 Laki eruption in Iceland.
1789 Ethiopia-Famine in Ethiopia afflicted "amhara/tigray north"

Thanks again for your input.

It's brewing nicely.

Uranus's transit of Aquarius - whacky ideas
Neptune's transit of Aquarius - delusional whacky ideas
Jupiter/ Saturn transit of Aquarius - great mutation ????

I'm very intuitive and I wonder how much of my mental activity is infact some sort of intuitive stream.

So I sense some sort of very challenging times in the 2020s and it looks that way.

Although I can't get it exactly we've got the issue of the Great Air Mutation in 2020. Though what happened to the last 20 years of the Great Earth Mutation ?

You just have to look around you to see the madness of Uranus and Neptune on Aquarius.

H

I agree with Mark, that one must start from what has happened when Pluto hit Aquarius before and in what context (other planetary cycles), but I would take this a stage further. Pluto won?t suddenly materialise in Aquarius from nowhere in 2023, Aquarius is just the next step in its 248 year orbit. Where it is now in Capricorn is a product of the earlier part of that cycle and when it moves into Aquarius it will do so within the context of what has happened in Capricorn.

I believe it is crucial that we, as mundane astrologers, work within the unfolding of the cyclical processes and not as if an astronomical event, such as arrival in Aquarius, occurs in isolation and can be simply paralleled with the last time it happened.

I would therefore put the movement of Pluto into Aquarius into the following context:

? The Pluto/Neptune conjunction of 1891/2 in Gemini and on-going sextile which will not end until the 2030s and will not become a square until 2060

I see this, especially the sextile, as being the conditions of existing post WWII western society:

Oil based
Credit based
Excess consumption and obesity
Social provision ? health/pensions etc.

Because this cycle does not move to the next stage until 2030-60 I don?t see these conditions significantly changing before then so any events created by Pluto in Aquarius should not be so great as to change these significantly?. yet!

? Pluto?s transits of other signs since that 1892.

So look at the evolution through at least 3-4 signs including the events of the current Capricorn transit

? The first conjunction of Pluto and Uranus since the Neptune conjunction (i.e in 1965-6) and the subsequent aspects between them (obviously in this case the current square)

Briefly I see this has been mainly the technological advances (though not the mass communication which I would associate with Neptune/Uranus 1991) and human rights advances started in the 60s.

? The nature of Pluto in Aquarius ? as evidenced by the last transit of the sign

Mark has summarised the events as well as noted that it is important to be sure before extrapolating that they occurred due to Pluto in Aquarius and not as a result of the other astrological factors existing concurrently.

? The context of the most recent Saturn and Jupiter Pluto conjunctions ? in this case the, almost, triple conjunction in 2020-21.

The fact that that Jupiter Saturn conjunction is itself in Aquarius and is a continuation of the new Jupiter Saturn in Air mutation in 1981, part of the 800 year grand cycle. (I admit I?m not sure what constitutes the beginning and end of that cycle -Fire/Aries perhaps). And the fact that the 1981 conjunction was also a triple conjunction with Pluto.

I see another thread has been started on the mutation. The last air mutation was around 1200, so difficult to relate to current economic and political conditions.

But I?ve noticed that the 1980/81 conjunction was, among other things, particularly relevant in terms of the financial sector- connecting to gold/currencies, leverage, debt and investment banking, so would expect 2020 to reflect such issues and Pluto in Aquarius in 2023 to thus unfold in the context of 2020-21.


As yet I have read no research on Eris, so can?t comment on it, but it presumably ought to be incorporated too now it has been acknowledged.