Skyscript Astrology Forum

I wonder, if anyone could tell me, how in a king's or queen's personal chart the houses are allotted to.

Especially I should like to know, where the population of the state or country, and the common people, the subjects could be found therein.

Johannes

For information on the country, it would be best to consult the chart for the country itself. See an example in Frawley's Real Astrology on the topic of mundane astrology.

A monarch's chart would be read just like that of any other leader if one were reading about their role as such. There are many examples of that too.

traditionalastrologystude wrote:A monarch's chart would be read just like that of any other leader if one were reading about their role as such. There are many examples of that too.

Traditionalastrologystude, thanks for your hint on Frawley! But would you mind to say something about which houses he or others allot the royal's or the leader's subjects, common people or followers to?

Johannes

Traditionalastrologystude, thanks for your hint on Frawley! But would you mind to say something about which houses he or others allot the royal's or the leader's subjects, common people or followers to?

Despite his expertize relating to horary I wouldn't regard John Frawley as a particular authority on traditional mundane astrology. The Real Astrology doesn't really examine mundane astrology at all beyond examining a possible coronation chart for Elizabeth I. However, that is used more as a demonstration of electional astrology. Although Frawley has written some short articles relating to mundane astrological topics such as comets and Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions.

Nevertheless, the astrologer that really comes to mind as a genuine authority in this area is Steven Birchfield. He has certainly made an extensive study of hellenistic and Perso-Arabic sources. He has also studied later early modern sources such as William Ramesey.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/birchfield.html

Lee Lehman has also made a thorough study of the topic and runs the only specific course teaching traditional mundane astrology I am aware of.

Benjamin Dykes is currently working his way through translations of all the major Perso-Arabic sources on this topic.

Traditional astrologers would actually have used a variety of charts:

-Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions for the dynasty

-Coronation charts for the particular reign of a monarch

-Annual revolutions or ingress charts

-Eclipse and lunation charts

-Comets

Nativities were obviously used and the house meanings would have needed a different interpretation considering it was a monarch's chart.

However, I am not aware that any separate literature exists describing different house associations in a monarch's chart in the way you seem to be assuming.

Still there are a lot of renaissance sources not translated yet. Margherita Fiorello is an authority on this period and she would probably be the best person to give you are more definitive answer.

Incidentally, this is probably a good time to highlight Benjamin Dykes new release which begins his series of translations mundane astrology:

http://www.bendykes.com/astrology-world.php

Mark

Especially I should like to know, where the population of the state or country, and the common people, the subjects could be found therein.

In a mundane chart this would be the first house and the Moon. I would have liked to have pointed you to an online copy of Gadbury's 'Nativity of the Late King Charles' but there doesn't seem to be any copies online. Perhaps checking out other historical copies of royal horoscopes will be the best way to understand the traditional approach to judging their charts.

Deb wrote:

In a mundane chart this would be the first house and the Moon.

That is identical to the tradition of house meanings using ingress charts.

Johannes already opened a thread on this topic on the mundane forum where I gave this link but I guess not everyone will have seen that so there is no harm sharing it again.

Here is your piece on ingress charts which gives traditional house meanings:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html

Mark

[John Frawley] written some short articles relating to mundane astrological topics such as comets and Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions.

John wrote a really interesting and lengthy article on mundane astrology in The Astrologer's Apprentice issue 21 (page 17), in which he proposed using the Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction that preceded US Independence as a birth chart of the USA. He combines the use of this chart with other traditional methods such as eclipses, subsequent conjunction charts, and event charts. The idea of using the conjunction in this way probably is not found in any old texts, but the techniques applied to the idea are very much traditional.

This was the second to last issue of the Apprentice, and I believe a pdf can be purchased for a few dollars on John's website.

Deb, Mark and Tom,

thank you so much for giving advice for the first steps to find a king's/queen's subjects in their personal charts.

Please let this plurality of your answers be my justification to open this second thread in another forum!

Johannes

Hi Johannes.

It was probably a wise move to post your question again here as you were more likely to get a well informed answer on such a technical/historical question here.

Although there is no readily available electronic copy of John Gadbury's 'Nativity of the Late King Charles' I have found a link to his work on the 'Nativity of the Lewis the Fourteenth' which might hopefully assist your research.

http://www.ceskaastrologie.cz/Lewis.pdf

regards

Mark

Thank you, Mark!

Good day,

In judicial astrology, Klaudios Ptolemaios considered the MC to take precedence compared to the Ascendant (see Tetrabiblos Book II) in matters concerning countries and their rulers. This makes astronomical sense as the MC indicates culmination, the greatest visibility.

One might well distinguish amongst Queens who, as spouses of the corresponding Kings, exercise little effective power, and sole ruling Queens like Elizabeth I Regina. One might further distinguish between effectively ruling Kings and Queens like the one just mentioned and predominately figureheads like Elizabeth II Regina.

Thus, the methods of analyses including house systems in genethliacal astrology may well differ to a considerable extent amongst various types of monarchs.

Best regards,

lihin