Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hello, I'm new in this forum, and I would like to ask about something that really bugs me since I read about Abu Mash'ar`s "pushing power". Actually, 2 doubts.
the first one: the definition of pushing power is when a highly dignified planet applies itself to another, and this one will be strengthened. But I haven't read anything that explicitly says that it cannot be the other way around: a planet applying itself to a dignified one. Is this "seeking" power? Please note that reception is not essential here, because it only happens in conjunctions. Mars in Scorpio can push his power to any planet that aspects it (or only to whom Mars applies itself?), but this Mars will only receive planets that are in Scorpio or another Mars place.
the second one: the whole concept gets way more difficult when the Sun shows up, because he burns who is close to him. But what if the Sun is dignified - in Aries or Leo -, so, this combustion envolves reception? Like combustion wasn't confusing enough in natal charts...

There is already a topic about this, but it didn't developed exactly in the way I am searching for. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... er&start=0

Thanks

Pejofar wrote:Hello, I'm new in this forum, and I would like to ask about something that really bugs me since I read about Abu Mash'ar`s "pushing power". Actually, 2 doubts.
the first one: the definition of pushing power is when a highly dignified planet applies itself to another, and this one will be strengthened. But I haven't read anything that explicitly says that it cannot be the other way around: a planet applying itself to a dignified one. Is this "seeking" power? Please note that reception is not essential here, because it only happens in conjunctions. Mars in Scorpio can push his power to any planet that aspects it (or only to whom Mars applies itself?), but this Mars will only receive planets that are in Scorpio or another Mars place.
the second one: the whole concept gets way more difficult when the Sun shows up, because he burns who is close to him. But what if the Sun is dignified - in Aries or Leo -, so, this combustion envolves reception? Like combustion wasn't confusing enough in natal charts...

Thanks

Hello

The key word here is "pushing" and it explains everything. Only a faster moving planet of the two is "pushing", the slower one is receiving (not necessarily in the sense of 'reception' because the reception can also be given by an applying, faster moving planet) - be it nature, power or counsel. "Pushing" denotes action, initiative, seeking, petitioning, etc. and it is always performed by a faster moving, applying planet; however, it is also possible to have a superior, slower moving planet doing the pushing to another which is naturally faster but for that to happen, the slower moving would have to be retrograde - a case of mutual application.

I'm not sure what you mean by it only happens in conjucntions, because any aspect may be involved.

In the case of Mars, he can only "push" power/nature/counsel to the other two superiors who are slower than him - Jupiter and Saturn, respectively.

According to Masha'allah,the Sun doesn't harm by conjunction when applying/being applied to by a planet in the Sun's domicile/kingdom i.e. exaltation. Then it can either push its own power upon a slower moving planet, receiving it at the same time or it can only get its nature pushed i.e. provide a "classical" reception to some faster moving planet.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Goran

So, if I'm getting this straight, Saturn in Aquarius cannot push his power to anyone? (ignoring retrograde or very slow planets) A planet applying to this Saturn is not with his power?
With "it only happens in conjunctions", I meant that, when a planet is pushing its power, it only receives the planet when there is a conjunction. Mars in Scorpio pushes his power to Jupiter in Leo, but it doesn't receive it; it would receive Jupiter only if he was in Scorpio.
There's also "pushing two natures", when the planet is not only dignified (pushing power), but it applies to its ruler (pushing its nature). Now, there is reception.

What a relief (personally) that planets are not afflicted by a dignified Sun! But here is another trick question; burned planets, but out of the sign of the Sun, are "not harmed" by it? Like Sun in 3? Aries, Mercury in 28? Pisces.

Thanks a lot

Pejofar wrote:So, if I'm getting this straight, Saturn in Aquarius cannot push his power to anyone? (ignoring retrograde or very slow planets) A planet applying to this Saturn is not with his power?
With "it only happens in conjunctions", I meant that, when a planet is pushing its power, it only receives the planet when there is a conjunction. Mars in Scorpio pushes his power to Jupiter in Leo, but it doesn't receive it; it would receive Jupiter only if he was in Scorpio.
There's also "pushing two natures", when the planet is not only dignified (pushing power), but it applies to its ruler (pushing its nature). Now, there is reception.

What a relief (personally) that planets are not afflicted by a dignified Sun! But here is another trick question; burned planets, but out of the sign of the Sun, are "not harmed" by it? Like Sun in 3? Aries, Mercury in 28? Pisces.

Thanks a lot

No, Saturn cannot "push" anything, as he is the most superior of all - every other planet may "push" something to him, but he represents the 'final judge' among the seven. That is also why he naturally represents kings and princes, great ruling figures, etc.

A dignified Saturn (or Mars, for that matter) is good if it receives, then the received planet profits from the essential power of its host. They're even good if the aspect is sextile or trine, etc. there are also other important considerations
Generally, a malefic that receives withdraws its malice, even if he lacks any essential dignity.

Actually, Mars in Scorpio would be able to push its power and to receive Saturn in Leo at the same time provided Saturn were placed in Mars's bound and face. Mars could do the same to some planet in Capricorn and Pisces,for instance, because reception happens not only by domicile/exaltation, but also by a combination of triplicity/bound, triplicity/face or bound face.

As for that example of the Sun in Aries and Mercury in Pisces, there's no reception and Mercury isn't protected. If he were in Aries, he would be received and the malice of combustion removed.

Regards,
Goran

Now I get it thanks a lot!
Must be careful with minor dignities when receptions show up!