Skyscript Astrology Forum

The chart is that of a male who is no longer living. The data is rated AA.
The Lots I have included in the chart are Fortune, Spirit, Exaltation, Necessity (Basis) and Eros (all calculated as described by Valens).

Based on the chart, what can be delineated about this man's:

1. Career?

2. Intimate Relationships?

3. Finances?

4. Death?

I will reveal the identity of the man next weekend and include my own delineations of the above topics.

Stellarium wrote: Based on the chart, what can be delineated about this man's:

1. Career?

2. Intimate Relationships?

3. Finances?

4. Death?

1. career - business man. mercury conjunct saturn in the 8th and ruler of his sun ( ha ha - i am not using uranus, lol).. this guy is probably a really tenacious and pugnacious type with mars opp sun as well.. killer instinct on the business level.. moon has just left an exact 60 from saturn as well here - so more of the same. media empire is possible with gemini rising and sun in aq in the whole sign 9th. focused on entertainment industry could be a part of it too with pisces on the midheaven.

2. intimate relationships - generally positive with venus in the 7th whole sign. jupiter as ruler of the 7th is in cancer opposite saturn in cap. i think this means the women gets lots of money off of him in any divorce settlement when he is found to be two timing her! venus in sag is a freedom type sign. people with this sign on the descendant don't necessarily do life long commitment.. he needs some trophy type women since it is a fire sign on the descendant. a lot of what i say has to do with flaky 2 timing gemini on the ascendant, lol.

3. finances - jupiter in cancer 2nd whole sign - mutual reception with moon in pisces. the guy is very rich is my guess.. moon in 2nd house waxing phase to sun - it is all about acquiring and amassing wealth and influence to do more of that.. typical american dream of the self made millionaire would probably really appeal to this guy and describe him too.

4. death - gee, you want to talk about his death too? lol.. a crocodile swallowed him when he was considering buying a louisiana crocodile theme/entertainment park one day.. seriously - sun in aquarius - heart attack from overwork perhaps..

msg deleted

Hi everyone. It?s my first time join such kind of game, but I would like to say I like games like this!

1) Career
Type. Generally I would consider (a) planets in and lord of 10th sign, (b) planet rising before sun (esp. for diurnal chart), and (c) planet have aspect with Moon (esp. nocturnal chart). Then pick up most active planet to determine the type of occupation.
Here Jupiter, Saturn, Venus meet above requirement. I would pick venus to determine occupation type because (a) it?s most active (closet to angles) (b) it?s inner planet (Jupiter and Saturn are not).Therefore I would say this man works for art or pleasure (musician, singer, painter, etc). Note that Venus is also the lady of 5th place, which consolidate this conclusion. (However, I don?t know how to distinguish singer from painter in the chart, so if any of you know some practical method please tell me)

Rank. Generally I would start from the light in sect. However Sun is cadent and detriment in this chart, Moon is at MC therefore she is dominating luminary. She is receipted by ALL her rulers (domicile, exaltation, triplicity, bound and decan), which is very very good!
Follow a Hellenistic doctrine, I would check the trigon lord. But I don?t know in this case whether we should check Sun?s or Moon?s. (Cuz although it?s a diurnal chart but Moon is more dominating). Should we check the Moon?s, we found Mars in angular to LoF, and Venus & Moon is angular (to Asc), which is very very good too!
Besides, LoS is at 10th of LoF, which adds more eminence.
In conclusion, this native is an artist with very very high fame and rank.

2) Relationship
At first sight, the native seems to have a happy relationship: Both Moon and venus are strong, and Venus is at 7th. However, 7th house and Moon?s house are mutable, and Moon has so many aspects, both of which indicates that the native marries more than once.
There are some problems in his relationship too. Moon aspects both benefics and a malefic Saturn may suggest up and downs in the marriage. So is the aspect between Saturn and Jupiter (lord of 7th). Considering this opposition occurs at 2rd and 8th, money and property is a potential disturbance of his relationship.
There is no aspect between Sun and Moon. This potentially suggests that his marriage cannot last. Considering he has a Mars-and-Venus trine, another problem of his intimate relationship is affair (though I cannot say it for sure)

3) Money
An exalted Jupiter in 2nd with mutual reception with Moon in 10th is a very good indication for personal possession. His income mainly comes from profession and fame. However, as discussed in 2), he has potential loss, perhap due to relationship.

4) Death
Kind of death. There are several indications for violent death in this chart. L1 at H8, both luminaries afflicted by malefics (Moon-Saturn sextile is partile btw, and both malefics are lords of 8th). I am not quite sure, but the lord of Fortune opposite it makes me feel not so good too (although some astrologer think it?s good since it?s angular to Fortune. Please inform me if I am wrong).
Generally Sun at Aquarius/Leo with malefic opposite it may result in cardiovascular diseases. (that?s based on my practise rather than ancient astrologers). But in this chart it?s very likely means some more due to correlation with other violent sign.
Besides, an out-of-sect and oriental Venus is not so benefic. Her present at DES may indicate death related to woman.

Time of death. Moon is the hyleg with few doubt, but I am kinda struggling with whether to pick Mercury or Venus as alcocoden. Though Venus has more point at Moon, I would pick Mercury because bound lord is preferred and Mercury have points at Sun/ASC too. (It?s a diurnal chart after all, and Ptolemy prefers an alcocoden having power in both sects). Mercury gives 48, Saturn deducts 30, and Jupiter adds 12, therefore total 30 years.
Estimate by the arc between Moon, Mars, Saturn and DES, there are many nasty aspect in his thirties according to direction. Those brought him to the end of his life.

A tentative judgment:


Finances

Native was born into an upper-middle class family. Likely the first child or son in the family. Some inheritance was wasted in youth. In middle age, native experiences increase in income. Remains roughly upper-middle class throughout his life.


Diseases and Death

Weakness of the eyes is indicated. Health problems may include pain in the stomach, burns, or amputation of a leg(s), which may have been the cause of death.


Career

The native was scholarly, of the intellectual and organised type. Potentially philosophical. Possible kinds of career include scientist, mathematician, statistician, teacher, missionary, etc. He could also have had a career related to the management of money and accounts.

He was probably quite successful in his career.


Intimate Relationship

Relationship with older women or women who were sickly. Either the native or his partner was often unfaithful or licentious. From this, frequent quarrels and arguments arose.

Part I - Biography

Sam Cooke - "The Father of Soul Music" Sam Cooke was born Samuel Cook on January 22, 1931 at 14:10 in Clarksdale, Mississippi. One of eight children born in humble circumstances to Annie May Cook and Charles Cook Sr., a Baptist minister, Cooke would go on to have seminal influence on soul music and R&B, with an incredible natural singing voice and a smooth, effortless delivery that has never been surpassed.

In 1933 the family moved to Chicago where Sam and his siblings often accompanied his father who quickly established himself as a major figure in the religious community. Reverend Cook commonly conducted his sermons with the help of gospel music and singing. While in High School, Sam and his siblings Charles, L.C., Mary and Hattie formed the gospel-singing group "The Singing Children", who often opened up for their father.

At the age of 15, Sam became the frontman of a bigger teenage gospel group called the ?Highway QC?s? where R.B. Robinson, baritone-singer of the Soul Stirrers, trained him. With the QC?s he travelled on the gospel circuit and performed on some radio shows.

When the lead singer of the "Soul Stirrers?" (the greatest and most famous gospel group of its time) R.H. Harris left the group in 1950, a 19 year old Sam Cook was asked to replace him. He did one audition and was a member of the Soul Stirrers right away.
He sang with the busy group for six years, performing more than 1,000 concerts coast to coast and making dozens of records.

Cooke's love life was also very busy and he was indiscriminate in his affairs with while on tour. With a magnetic attraction to women which was often reciprocated, Sam and his group had a choice of girls and he was known to enjoy his share of the pleasures of the flesh. Over the span of a five week period from March to April 1952, three young women each gave birth to a daughter fathered by Cooke. He was beset by paternity lawsuits up until his death and most were quietly settled with pay-offs. One of the women who gave birth to Cooke's daughter was his long term girlfriend Barbara Campbell but he didn't marry her. Instead later that year he married a Texas singer called Dolores "Dee Dee" Mohawk. Mohawk, who already had a child from a previous relationship, was deemed by Cooke's parents to not be good enough for their son and they didn't bother to attend the wedding. The marriage faltered under the weight of Sam's cheating and Mohawk's jealousy and the couple divorced in 1957, shortly before Sam's breakthrough performance on The Ed Sullivan Show. Mohawlk died in a car crash in Fresno in 1958 and Cooke paid her funeral expenses.

Although he was an icon in the gospel music scene, Cooke wanted to expand his musical horizons to popular music, primarily to make more money. There was no way he could combine singing in both the gospel- and secular music scene so he decided to quit singing with the Soul Stirrers. Crossing over from gospel to the pop music scene was controversial and when Cooke went pop in 1957, it was said he was selling out but he did not have any major problems because of it.

On December 1, 1957, Cooke appeared on CBS' The Ed Sullivan Show to sing the song "You Send Me."
The Sullivan gig pushed the single over over the top. The next day, it was No. 1 on the Billboard pop chart and over a a million copies were eventually sold. "You Send Me" is a pioneering soul record in its time, melding elements of R&B, gospel, and pop into a sound that was new and still coalescing at the time.

From this breakthrough in 1957 until his death in 1964, Cooke had 29 Top 40 hits in the U.S. Among his biggest hits were "Everybody Loves To Cha Cha Cha", "Only Sixteen" and "Wonderful World" and "Chain Gang"

Not only was Cooke a successful singer-songwriter, but he was also strongly focused on the business side of the music world. He would open the door for many more black artists to capitalize on their record sales in ways that had never been possible before. Being one of the very first of his era to take interest in and control of his own copyright protection. He formed his own publishing company called Kags music and a year later he began his own record company. SAR Records allowed for Cooke to control his own career in a very powerful way. This type of control over his material and ability to maximize profit was unprecedented for the time and enabled Cooke to become a very wealthy man.

Back on a more personal front, Cooke married his long time childhood sweetheart and mother of his daughter Barbara Campbell in October 1959. In December 1961, Campbell gave birth to Sam's son Vincent and a daughter Tracey followed under a year later. Cooke was reportedly an absent father, spending most of his time in the studio or out with friends. When he was at home, he retreated into his own mind, often working out songs on his acoustic guitar, composing lyrics or reading. Cooke's aloofness at home was not the only stress on his relationship with Barbara. His prolific womanising continued and Campbell also took a lover or two. When 18 month old Vincent drowned in the the pool of a newly purchased house near Hollywood, Sam blamed Campbell for failing to adequately supervise the toddler.

In the early 1960s as Cooke was at the peak of his career, the civil rights struggle was raging in the background. Released in 1964 as a single, "A Change is Gonna Come" become known not only as Sam Cooke's greatest works but one of the most cherished songs of the civil rights era. Inspired by Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind", Cooke, who had always been attuned to the plight of African-Americans, wrote the song after an incident where he was arrested and jailed for refusing to leave a Los Angeles hotel that wouldn't honor his reservation because of his race.

Shortly after the song's release, Cooke was shot dead in a bizarre incident in a seedy Los Angeles motel.

It was December 10, 1964 and Cooke joined his record producer Al Schmitt in Martoni's, an Italian restaurant off Sunset Boulevard, in Hollwood. While there, he met a 23 year old woman called Elisa Boyer, an attractive Asian-American who was arrested for prostitution a month after Cooke's death. The pair left the restaurant in Cooke's red Ferrari drove some 17 miles south to the Hacienda motel, in South-Central Los Angeles.

After paying the $3 a night rate and signing the register as "Mr and Mrs Sam Cooke", the pair went to a room. Boyer claimed that she wanted to leave and Cooke became aggressive and stripped Boyer to her underwear. "He pinned me on the bed. He kept saying, 'We're just going to talk.' ... He pulled my sweater off and ripped my dress... I knew he was going to rape me," she later told police. After Cooke left to use the bathroom, she grabbed her clothes and some of his clothes and fled the hotel. When Cooke returned, he was enraged (perhaps because he believed he had been robbed) and went looking for Boyer.

He got into a confrontation with the motel manageress, Bertha Franklin, a heavyset African American woman in her 50s. Franklin, who had a pistol in her office for protection, grabbed it and fired three shots at Cooke. One shot hit him in the chest and penetrated his heart, killing him. Cooke was only 33 years old. His killing was later deemed a justifiable homicide.

References:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cooke,_Sam

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_m ... index.html

http://www.songsofsamcooke.com/biography.htm

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sam-cook ... /biography

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlIQHmUunRk (documentary)

Part II - Astrology



Thanks to james_m, Marius Cojoc, Haydon and Larxene for taking part.

1. Career

Haydon wrote: Type. Generally I would consider (a) planets in and lord of 10th sign, (b) planet rising before sun (esp. for diurnal chart), and (c) planet have aspect with Moon (esp. nocturnal chart). Then pick up most active planet to determine the type of occupation.
Here Jupiter, Saturn, Venus meet above requirement. I would pick venus to determine occupation type because (a) it?s most active (closet to angles) (b) it?s inner planet (Jupiter and Saturn are not).Therefore I would say this man works for art or pleasure (musician, singer, painter, etc). Note that Venus is also the lady of 5th place, which consolidate this conclusion. (However, I don?t know how to distinguish singer from painter in the chart, so if any of you know some practical method please tell me)

Rank. Generally I would start from the light in sect. However Sun is cadent and detriment in this chart, Moon is at MC therefore she is dominating luminary. She is receipted by ALL her rulers (domicile, exaltation, triplicity, bound and decan), which is very very good!
Follow a Hellenistic doctrine, I would check the trigon lord. But I don?t know in this case whether we should check Sun?s or Moon?s. (Cuz although it?s a diurnal chart but Moon is more dominating). Should we check the Moon?s, we found Mars in angular to LoF, and Venus & Moon is angular (to Asc), which is very very good too!
Besides, LoS is at 10th of LoF, which adds more eminence.
In conclusion, this native is an artist with very very high fame and rank.

On type of career, you are correct and I would agree with your delineation, to which I would add that Venus is the ruler of the lot of Spirit and is at her maximum elongation east of the Sun (therefore a very bright morning star), further accentuating her strength and influence on the native's career. As to how to distinguish between an artist and a singer, that is difficult but I would suggest that for artists, there would be an emphasis on earth signs (especially Taurus), especially for the Moon, Mercury (significators of the soul) and the planet most indicative of career (which we would expect to generally be Venus). Both Sagittarius and Pisces have a certain degree of religious fervour on account of Jupiter's rulership and Venus/Sagittarius can be delineated as the singing of gospel music. Soul music is more of the flavour of Moon/Pisces.

On rank, your approach of taking the trigon lord's of an angular Moon instead of declining Sun in a diurnal chart is interesting. Based on this chart alone, it would appear to "work", because the trigon lords of the Sun are all in post-ascensions relative to the Asc and declining relative to Fortune, whereas the trigon lords of the Moon are stronger. In favour of the Sun's trigon lords however, it should be noted that Saturn (1st trigon lord) is in his own sign and a relatively strong spear-bearer for the Sun, with Mercury the second trigon lord. By quadrant divison, Mercury is in the 7th and could be considered as being "goaded to action." The third trigon lord Jupiter is exalted in the 2nd (on cusp of 2nd by quadrant division).

After assessing the condition of the trigon lords of the sect light, Valens urges us to check for the rulers of the lots (Fortune, Spirit, Exaltaion and Basis) handing over to each other (or 10th from Fortune and Spirit) to assess the level of eminence. Here, we see the ruler of Fortune culminating with respect to Spirit.

Forum members who are experienced in Hellenistic astrology may have some comment on this.

james_m wrote:1. career - business man. mercury conjunct saturn in the 8th and ruler of his sun ( ha ha - i am not using uranus, lol).. this guy is probably a really tenacious and pugnacious type with mars opp sun as well.. killer instinct on the business level.. moon has just left an exact 60 from saturn as well here - so more of the same. media empire is possible with gemini rising and sun in aq in the whole sign 9th. focused on entertainment industry could be a part of it too with pisces on the midheaven.

This is also very close to being accurate. As described in the biography above:

Not only was Cooke a successful singer-songwriter, but he was also strongly focused on the business side of the music world. He would open the door for many more black artists to capitalize on their record sales in ways that had never been possible before. Being one of the very first of his era to take interest in and control of his own copyright protection. He formed his own publishing company called Kags music and a year later he began his own record company. SAR Records allowed for Cooke to control his own career in a very powerful way. This type of control over his material and ability to maximize profit was unprecedented for the time and enabled Cooke to become a very wealthy man.

In addition to your delineation, I would add that the ruler of the Moon placed in the 2nd house makes Cooke focused on material wealth, especially as that ruler is Jupiter exalted and is also strongly configured with Mercury, ruler of the lot of Exaltation.

Your description of a "tenacious and pugnacious" person when delineating the Sun/Aquarius-Mars/Leo opposition matches descriptions of him as a "stubborn warrior" with "perseverance and determination to be the best at whatever he did"...a lot of Sam?s strong willed nature and generosity towards his fellow man were the traits of his father..." (http://www.ourunclesam.com/ReaderViews-Jan07.pdf)

Marius Cojoc wrote:The MC occupies the 10th image. In Pisces, we have dealings with the issue of participation (metoche). Aphrodite and Zeus will give de aquistion of the profession. Aphrodite is establishing the agenda and Zeus will execute it. The effect is more visible in when the exaltation lord is in sect and the domicile lord is out of sect. In our case, the MC and Aphrodite are in the confines of Aphrodite and the effect, I'm sure that will be visible.

Indeed could be an entertainment profession. The native could be an artist. The quality of the profession will be judge trough Selene, Zeus and Ares. Indeed could be a money maker. The profession will be well paid. Indeed could be a bussines man.

Again, the combination of the entertainment profession and businessman is accurate.

Larxene wrote:Career

The native was scholarly, of the intellectual and organised type. Potentially philosophical. Possible kinds of career include scientist, mathematician, statistician, teacher, missionary, etc. He could also have had a career related to the management of money and accounts.

He was probably quite successful in his career.

Cooke was not known for being scholarly although he was a prolific reader, he was intellectual to certain degree and was organised as can be determined form his formation of a publishing company and record label. He did not have any of the careers you list but "management of money and accounts" is close to his business interests. He was very successful in his career.

2. Relationships

Haydon wrote:2) Relationship
At first sight, the native seems to have a happy relationship: Both Moon and venus are strong, and Venus is at 7th. However, 7th house and Moon?s house are mutable, and Moon has so many aspects, both of which indicates that the native marries more than once.
There are some problems in his relationship too. Moon aspects both benefics and a malefic Saturn may suggest up and downs in the marriage. So is the aspect between Saturn and Jupiter (lord of 7th). Considering this opposition occurs at 2rd and 8th, money and property is a potential disturbance of his relationship.
There is no aspect between Sun and Moon. This potentially suggests that his marriage cannot last. Considering he has a Mars-and-Venus trine, another problem of his intimate relationship is affair (though I cannot say it for sure)

He had two marriages and was faithful in neither, a prolific womaniser, he could not control his unbridled libido. Of Venus in the 7th, 1st-century Hellenistic astrologer Dorotheus of Sidon writes:

If Venus is in the seventh place from the ascendent, it indicates injury and misery and calamity because of women and that he will have little stability with them, but will have intercourse with those who have need and poverty and slave girls [and] servants [and] strangers, but according to this he will be married because of the place of Venus in a cardine, but because of the place of the ascendent opposite it [Venus] it indicates injury because of women.

His friend Bumps Blackwell once said, "Sam would walk past a good girl to get to a whore." In addition to Venus, I would add that the ruler of the 1st applying to the ruler of the 7th further enhanced Cooke's motivation to seek out sexual encounters.

A further troublesome issue is the ruler of the 7th in the 2nd (8th from itself). This sometimes signifies premature death of the spouse. That did not happen in Cooke's case bacause he had been divorced from Mohalk for a year when she died in a car crash but she had been his wife so it is worth noting in any event.

Again quoting Dorotheus:

If Venus is in [one of'] its own places, it indicates marriage, and the marriage will abound in children.

Venus/Sagittarius is in her own bounds. The number of children fathered by Cooke is unknown but it is likely to be at least in the high single digits. In addition to Venus as 5th ruler, Moon/Pisces in the 10th sign is also an indicator of many children for this place was noted (by Valens and others) as being conducive to children. The lot of Children is found at 23 Sagittarius (not shown on the chart), further emphasising Venus in this matter and also Jupiter - note that Jupiter/Cancer is in the 8th sign from Sagittarius and one of his children (18 month old Vincent) drowned in the family swimming pool.

The solar return for the year in which three children were concevied (1951 - chart not shown) with three different women shows Venus/Sagittarius tightly conjunct the natal lot of Children and Jupiter/Aries at the return MC. According to an ancient source whose name I can't remember, whenever Jupiter or Venus comes to a conjunction or opposition of the natal lot of Children in a solar revolution, then the native will have children (provided the natal potential for this exists).

james_m wrote:2. intimate relationships - generally positive with venus in the 7th whole sign. jupiter as ruler of the 7th is in cancer opposite saturn in cap. i think this means the women gets lots of money off of him in any divorce settlement when he is found to be two timing her! venus in sag is a freedom type sign. people with this sign on the descendant don't necessarily do life long commitment.. he needs some trophy type women since it is a fire sign on the descendant. a lot of what i say has to do with flaky 2 timing gemini on the ascendant, lol.

I'm sure a lot of men would consider Cooke's way with women as being "generally positive"! However, this was a "flaw of biblical proportion" according to the Crime Library biography:

Cooke had a flaw of Biblical proportion: his unbridled libido.

He was a skirt-chaser and serial philanderer, a problem that shadowed his entire life since adolescence.

In addition to being in the 7th and ruling the 5th, Venus also rules the 12th of evil spirit (Taurus) which also contains the Lot of Spirit.

I couldn't find any details about his divorce settlement with Dolores Mohalk but he was noted for paying out due to lots of paternity claims after he became famous.

Larxene wrote:Intimate Relationship

Relationship with older women or women who were sickly. Either the native or his partner was often unfaithful or licentious. From this, frequent quarrels and arguments arose.

Given his indiscriminate affairs, he may well have had sexual relations with older women but this is not stated in any biography I have read. The rest of your points are accurate.

3. Finances

Here, James has given the delineation that is most accurate but both Haydon and Marius Cojoc also refer to positive indicators for wealth.

james_m wrote:3. finances - jupiter in cancer 2nd whole sign - mutual reception with moon in pisces. the guy is very rich is my guess.. moon in 2nd house waxing phase to sun - it is all about acquiring and amassing wealth and influence to do more of that.. typical american dream of the self made millionaire would probably really appeal to this guy and describe him too.

Jupiter/Cancer/2nd ruled by Moon/Pisces/10th (with reception) is cited as the reason for this by james_m and Haydon.

Other factors to look at would be the Lot of Fortune and the 11th sign from Fortune. Lot of Fortune in the 3rd with Mars/Leo opposite Sun/Aquarius may point to Cooke's "warrior spirit" and dogged determination in his pursuit of fortune (e.g forming his own publishing company and record label so he would retain the rights (i.e $$) to his own songs). The 11th sign from Fortune is Gemini ruled by Mercury/Capricorn applying to Jupiter and with Saturn/Capricorn (organised accumulation of wealth).

4. Death

Cooke was shot dead at the age of 33. Haydon is very accurate here:

Haydon wrote:4) Death
Kind of death. There are several indications for violent death in this chart. L1 at H8, both luminaries afflicted by malefics (Moon-Saturn sextile is partile btw, and both malefics are lords of 8th). I am not quite sure, but the lord of Fortune opposite it makes me feel not so good too (although some astrologer think it?s good since it?s angular to Fortune. Please inform me if I am wrong).
Generally Sun at Aquarius/Leo with malefic opposite it may result in cardiovascular diseases. (that?s based on my practise rather than ancient astrologers). But in this chart it?s very likely means some more due to correlation with other violent sign.
Besides, an out-of-sect and oriental Venus is not so benefic. Her present at DES may indicate death related to woman.

Time of death. Moon is the hyleg with few doubt, but I am kinda struggling with whether to pick Mercury or Venus as alcocoden. Though Venus has more point at Moon, I would pick Mercury because bound lord is preferred and Mercury have points at Sun/ASC too. (It?s a diurnal chart after all, and Ptolemy prefers an alcocoden having power in both sects). Mercury gives 48, Saturn deducts 30, and Jupiter adds 12, therefore total 30 years.
Estimate by the arc between Moon, Mars, Saturn and DES, there are many nasty aspect in his thirties according to direction. Those brought him to the end of his life.

Regarding kind of death, in addition to Haydon's rationale I would add the the Moon being in the 8th sign from Fortune most tightly aspecting Saturn in the 8th from the Ascendant is another indicator of a violent death.

Regarding the time of death, I have found the method of determining longevity by determining the alcocodens years according to a set of rules (house position, aspects etc) to be unreliable, but Haydon has got a good result with it here, so I have nothing to add about this.

Haydon was good wasn't he?

Matthew

stellerium - thanks so much for doing this! i appreciate your thorough nature and willingness to share here and i thank all the others who contributed to this thread as well. thanks!

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Marius Cojoc wrote:Greetings,

The 8th place, according to Hermes is a place of life (zoe) and way of life (bios). I don?t think that Kronos is to be fault for such a violent death. The attitude of Kronos tends to be favorable in the day time chart. I found this place to be, what Hermes suggests it is.

The 6th place shows events related with vangance and injuries. It seems to me that Ares is the trouble maker. The attitude of Ares in the Lion, tends to be evil for life and Fortune. I have no doubt that we have dealings with a maltreatment issue.

Selene is in the New Crescent phase, barely visible and is rejoicing slightly with the sect of the chart. Even if is angular and eastern, its authority is compromised because it occupies a feminine zoidion and because it dosen?t recive the testimonie of Hermes (or Zeus). If Selene is void of course, it means that there is no one to witness (to support) its supremacy. If is not void, the first figure which is forming, after leaving the zoidion, will be with Helios (30 degrees rule for void).

In my opinion, Helios is the Light of the chart. Hermes is the Alcocoden and it gives 48 years from which Ares subtracts 15 years. The native lived 33 years. Only if astrology would be that easy

Marius,

where do you read these things about Hermes? I don't recall seeing him being quoted so explicitly.

For my delineation, I used Equal House, following Mathesis. However, for this chart it seems that Whole Sign is more accurate.



1) Sun: 9th House (Whole Sign), 8th House (Equal House)

Sam's father was a priest, so 9th House is more accurate.


2) 7th House: Venus (Whole Sign), Saturn and Mercury (Equal House)

Sam was a musician. Either Venus or Mercury will signify music. However, Venus is in her own terms, while Mercury is undignified. Furthermore, Mercury when with Saturn impedes musical ability, as it makes the person more rigid and inflexible.

If we can further find a relationship between Venus and Mercury, the testimony for music will be strengthened. At first glance, there seems to be no relationship between Venus and Mercury. However, Capricorn and Saggitarius are connected via antiscia. Therefore Venus and Mercury are connected by antiscia (though by sign rather than degree).

Furthermore, Jupiter the in-sect, exalted benefic helps his musical ability by being connected to Venus via antiscia. Jupiter is in opposition to Capricorn, and Capricorn sends this diametric ray to Venus via antiscia. In return, Venus is in opposition to Gemini, and Gemini sends her ray to Jupiter via its antiscia relationship with Cancer.

Reference for this technique can be found in Mathesis, Book 2 on Antiscia.


3) Saturn in Venus's terms, Saturn-Venus antiscia, Venus in a diurnal chart (when angular or prominent in the chart)

The above testimonies make the native over-sexed, adulterous and/or those who seek unnatural sexual liaisons.

When using Equal House, Saturn is angular, but when using Whole Sign, Venus is angular. This may be why the native was not known to have sexual liaisons with older or sick/diseased women, because Venus is more prominent than Saturn. Anyway, it is just a possibility.


4) Mars: 3rd House (Whole Sign), 2nd House (Equal House)

I forecasted the manner of death to be Marshall in nature due to the opposition between the out-of-sect retrograde malefic with the sect light, where the sect light is in the 8th House and the malefic in the 2nd, both houses that are associated with death according to Maternus.

When using Whole Sign the houses change, so there is less testimony that death is caused by Mars.

However in reality Sam Cooke was murdered via gunning, so the opposition alone may have proved fatal.


5) Jupiter: 2nd House (Whole Sign), 1st House (Equal House) | Moon: 10th House (Whole Sign), 9th House (Equal House)

One last comment is on the exalted but retrograde Jupiter. Jupiter in the second and Moon in the 10th receives each other by sign, signifies that the native will be successful in career and gain much wealth from his activities.

Also note that the Moon is waxing. Maternus seems to imply that the phases of the Moon also affects its relationship with the planets. A waxing Moon is more aligned with diurnal planets and therefore more beneficial than harmful when a diurnal planet is aspected to it (i.e. Jupiter).

However, the retrograde condition always brings something of a contrary nature, and to find out what exactly happened, we may recall that Jupiter is connected to Venus, the latter of which led to his many affairs with women and the resulting lawsuits (also testified by antiscia and opposition with Mercury) which had an effect on his finances (Jupiter in the 2nd).