Skyscript Astrology Forum

Posted: **Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:32 pm**

I'm trying to establish which medieval Arabic (and possibly ancient) astrological authors explicitly divide nativities into four categories with regard to life span, beginning with those who die before taking any nourishment. I know Bonatti makes use of this division, but I'm interested in finding the earlier sources. Any help would be much appreciated.

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:22 am**

Hi Martin,

Omar of Tiberias : Three Books on Nativities
Abu Bakr : On Nativities

My article on this subject (in my language):

http://fragmenty.johannes.cz/

see the:

Hyleg a Alkochoden ??st III
Hyleg a Alkochoden ??st IV

Petr

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:09 am**

Hello,

I find it interesting that just now again the interest on the topic Hyleg, Alcocoden etc, seems to be related to the lifetime (4 Division) agenda. I myself work from just a few hundred horoscopes from old data (statistical horoscopes birth and death dates), where the circumstances of his death are specified. Hope that therefore the issue lifespan from an astrological point of view becomes more clear.

Perhaps an intelligence exchange is there possible? It must not everyone re-invent the wheel?

Wolfgang

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:51 pm**

Thanks, Petr. I wish I did read Czech. Other sources, anyone?

Posted: **Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:53 pm**

Wolfgang wrote:Perhaps an intelligence exchange is there possible? It must not everyone re-invent the wheel?

I certainly hope it's possible, but I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting -- could you clarify?

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:23 pm**

Yes, I have addressed a touchy subject.
A beginning is already existing , as Petr causeth test results or data to be exchanged. I would have liked more . But I know that it is difficult

Part of the research on some topics, is to get and to read old text, or simple: to get the literature.
Ok - . Here in the forum are, for example, will the knowledge exchanged for further reading . But the eventual theses , etc, to be able to verify this all, we will need data and the right software . And here there are still no known to me any exchanges. The normal " software " perhaps serves to any average astrologer , but for research it needs some other software. And to execute all this data it also needs cooperation of research-based astrologer. Even in astrologers associations is every of the research-based astrologer a single fighter. Therefore, I would like to see a new foundation of research groups, or asking for forms such that can make sense to use Examine for the respective research themes, the needed software and data .
And if that could still happen , transnational , so that would be wonderful .
Maybe a future dream but finally pronounced now and therefore free to discuss !

Wolfgang

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:06 pm**

I suggest you start a new thread for that, Wolfgang. Mine was a simple request for information, and your appeal is likely to be overlooked here.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:16 pm**

Hi Wolfgang,

sorry to get in the middle of the conversation, but I though it was opportune to drop a word on a specific subject you've come up with.

(Disclaimer: I would not like to make my response to pass as advertising, but if yes, any moderator may remove my post, or move it to an appropriate section)

Wolfgang wrote:But the eventual theses , etc, to be able to verify this all, we will need data and the right software . And here there are still no known to me any exchanges. The normal " software " perhaps serves to any average astrologer , but for research it needs some other software. And to execute all this data it also needs cooperation of research-based astrologer.

I've been working for some time in my project which is aimed also at solving that specific problem, of being also a research tool, essentially because that is my primary goal with astrology. That part of the software is quite ready (for my personal usage), and I'm already using it to generate astrological tabular data from a large dataset.

For instance, there has been a (quite) "collaborative" discussion about the efficiency of some methods in the Sports/Speculation section to devise the winners of games/races.
But instead of drawing all 864 charts, I use my API (Programming Interface) to generate the astrological tabular data for the games. The advantage of this approach is that I do not need to see the 864 charts, only the statistics using Data mining software.

As an example of what is possible with these kind of softwares, so far I've ruled out the idea that Hour ruler agreement has any influence on the outcome of football games, and I could find evidence that the Asc Ruler in the 6th accounts for a large number of Away Team winnings while on the 7th, it accounts for a large increase of Home Team winnings. With that information and software, I can see statistics for new ideas very fast.

For instance, for a dataset of games (with date/times) I do something like this:

Code: Select all

for game in games:
    chart = game.getChart()
    asc = chart.getHouse(HOUSE1)
    ascRuler = asc.essentialDignity().ruler
    # Get the house and sign of the AscRuler
    ascRulerHouse = ascRuler.getHouse()
    ascRulerSign = ascRuler.getSign()
    # Get aspects to asc ruler
    aspectList = chart.getAspectsTo(ascRuler)
    for aspect in aspectList:
         if (aspect.type == QUADRATURE): doSomething()
         ...
    # Print all individual information to a table row

This is just a small programmatically example, but I can do more complex things with this.. So, there is the software, but I still have to devise the better way to make this available, and workable to people without Computer Programming skills.. I think in 5/6 months I'll start to have anything ready for betatesting, I'll post here at skyscript at that time if there is any interest in the subject..

Wolfgang wrote: Therefore, I would like to see a new foundation of research groups, or asking for forms such that can make sense to use Examine for the respective research themes, the needed software and data.

This matches with my interest on Astrology, and I let my interest in working with people with similar interests (to study astrology methods through the usage of large datasets using statistical analysis). For instance, a dataset with accurate birth dates and death dates, and an hypothesis/method to test predictions would be a great research topic. If you happen to have something like that, drop me a word..

(By the way, here is a merchandising video of the software I use to do analytics over the astrological data)

Regards,
Jo?o Ventura

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:18 pm**

Hallo Martin,

you are right. The answer was not the simple answer for your question. Probably I should open a new thread with this appeal.
But this was not my intention by writing this.

Wolfgang

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:34 pm**

Hello Jventura,

I am pleased to hear of your project and the offer of cooperation.
I would like to know more about it. As you collect data, for example, manually, etc., or how do you do the filtering? The problem is filtering even with multiple factors or variants. Maybe you send me by e-mail a little vivid of your material in order to understand it better?

Wolfgang

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:39 pm**

Wolfgang wrote:Hello Jventura,

I am pleased to hear of your project and the offer of cooperation.
I would like to know more about it. As you collect data, for example, manually, etc., or how do you do the filtering? The problem is filtering even with multiple factors or variants. Maybe you send me by e-mail a little vivid of your material in order to understand it better?

Wolfgang

Hi again Wolfgang,

I don't want to "pollute" much more Martin Gansten's thread, so I opened a new thread in the Sports and Speculation section with some more information about your question. Feel free to check it..

Regards,
Jo?o Ventura

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:59 pm**

Thanks Jo?o Ventura,

but next time, I think, we, or you should open new thread for this theme.

Wolfgang

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Sources for the fourfold division of life span

Sources for the fourfold division of life span